Would you do this - semi advanced fingerstyle question

[TBman]

Below is a section of a song that I'm learning. The performance speed is about 180+ bpm. To get the third measure to come out right, I have to get that 5th fret note on the 6th string fretted (blue arrow) just right so I can bounce to the next played double-stop without messing up.

I'm playing the first measure index and ring, then the second measure I was just picking up the index and playing the ring finger note (red arrow) and then shifting up to play the note that starts the the third measure.

So now I thought that shifting up and playing the red arrow note with my middle finger would get me in better position and more time to change to the 3rd measure position (blue arrow) played with the ring finger.

Then it occurred to me that it would be better to grab the 3rd measure note, but don't play it when I hit the last open string in the 2nd measure (black arrow) {or maybe even the beat before}.

I realize that I don't have hold the 3rd measure, first note, while playing the double stop (2nd beat) of the third measure, but getting the ring finger in the right position/angle for the third measure first note (black arrow) makes the rest of it bounce nicely.

Would you bother? At 150 bpm it doesn't really matter as I have time to fudge around a bit, but at the 180 bpm it matters. I realize this clearly illustrates the geekiness of my guitar world, lol.

I realized that my mindset was "measure by measure" for finger placement, but that may be misguided.

[H165]

With stuff like this I like to try to see it played (visual closeup) by more than one player to see what they do. There are a whole lot of folks out there finding interesting solutions to these puzzles. Youtube posters have taught me more than any other source lately.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by H165

With stuff like this I like to try to see it played (visual closeup) by more than one player to see what they do. There are a whole lot of folks out there finding interesting solutions to these puzzles. Youtube posters have taught me more than any other source lately.

I know. I looked the other day to see if anyone covered this (Al Petteway's "Sheep At The Door") on youtube but no luck. I don't think Al even has a video of it. I'll keep looking though.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Then it occurred to me that it would be better to grab the 3rd measure note, but don't play it when I hit the last open string in the 2nd measure (black arrow) {or maybe even the beat before}.

I realize that I don't have hold the 3rd measure, first note, while playing the double stop (2nd beat) of the third measure, but getting the ring finger in the right position/angle for the third measure first note (black arrow) makes the rest of it bounce nicely.

Would you bother? At 150 bpm it doesn't really matter as I have time to fudge around a bit, but at the 180 bpm it matters.

No, definitely not.
No matter how cleanly you think you can do that, it will be nearly impossible to avoid sounding some part of that G note ahead of its time as you place the finger, especially at a fast tempo. That would be bad.
And there is no need. The best way to finger the first note (G) of the third measure is to grab it with the third finger (as you said) and use your 2nd and 4th fingers for the double note. That frees up the first finger nicely for what is to come and positions the hand properly.
With slow practice of that shift, you can get it to play clean. And then just speed it up. That's the best way to do it imo.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by TBman

Below is a section of a song that I'm learning. The performance speed is about 180+ bpm. To get the third measure to come out right, I have to get that 5th fret note on the 6th string fretted (blue arrow) just right so I can bounce to the next played double-stop without messing up.

I'm playing the first measure index and ring, then the second measure I was just picking up the index and playing the ring finger note (red arrow) and then shifting up to play the note that starts the the third measure.

So now I thought that shifting up and playing the red arrow note with my middle finger would get me in better position and more time to change to the 3rd measure position (blue arrow) played with the ring finger.

Then it occurred to me that it would be better to grab the 3rd measure note, but don't play it when I hit the last open string in the 2nd measure (black arrow) {or maybe even the beat before}.

I realize that I don't have hold the 3rd measure, first note, while playing the double stop (2nd beat) of the third measure, but getting the ring finger in the right position/angle for the third measure first note (black arrow) makes the rest of it bounce nicely.

Would you bother? At 150 bpm it doesn't really matter as I have time to fudge around a bit, but at the 180 bpm it matters. I realize this clearly illustrates the geekiness of my guitar world, lol.

I find it easy enough either way. I looks to me as if the open 4th string (instead of fret 4) on beat 4 of measure 2 (black arrow) is there purely to allow the 3rd finger to get to the 6th string in time.

I'd do it that way myself - it doesn't feel awkward or rushed even faster than 180. (I'd probably describe myself as a "semi-advanced" player, btw ) You have a whole half measure of open strings to get into position for measure 3, any way you want.

The change in position (middle on 4th in measure 2) looks a clever way of making the move smoother, but it seems like an unnecessary complication to me. But it would allow the 4th fret bass note to be used instead of the open string at the black arrow - if you think that would be an improvement.

I do think what you call your "measure by measure" mindset for finger placement is an unnecessary restriction. One always has to think about the best moves from measure to measure - linking from one chord or position to the next - which often requires adjusting fingers in the middle of (or end of) a measure.

(As for geekiness ... I've had to confront a lot of this kind of thing transcribing a bunch of Bert Jansch tunes recently. It doesn't exactly help that in videos you sometimes see him using fingerings that are counter-intuitive, and apparently more difficult than necessary for us normal mortals...)

[TBman]

Ok thanks everyone. I'm going to see how the middle finger transition in measure 2 works out and see what happens. I'm starting to rush myself to performance speed and I think that is part of the problem. Time to go back to slowly and correctly.

[frankhond]

What I do in these situations is simply try each possibility I can come up with at slow to medium speed. One or two will be easier, pick the one that puts your hand in the best position for the next upcoming shift. Often it will turn out later that the easiest one here messes up something later and we have to compromise. The final solution is often different from the original composers, not surprising considering everyone's hands are different.

[TBman]

Thanks again. I just noticed that in the third measure, second beat, using the open 1st D string instead of the 5th fret 2nd string fretted D, makes it play smoother too.

Edit:
Actually that's the whole thing possibly. Doing this did away with the slight pull I was getting when I stretched to the last beat of the measure (I was holding 2nd str, 5th fret down while just reaching up and playing the last beat) and other things.

[TBman]

Here's the original artist (Al Petteway) playing the song. I love this tune. changing that fretted high D note to the open note makes the section flow for me. I just have to go back and build the muscle memory for both hands now.


Sheep At The Door: