The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:13 AM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hilton Head
Posts: 14,832
Default Trouble doing full F major on upper frets

I seem like on all my guitars I have a harder time doing an F Major (or whatever it's called when you do it farther up the neck) on the upper frets (8th fret, for example). The closer I do it to the headstock the easier it is.

Is it just me, and if not, is there a reason?


Last edited by Rosewood99; 06-24-2017 at 08:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:16 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulzoom View Post
I seem like on all my guitars I have a harder time doing an F Major (or whatever it's called when you do it farther up the neck). The closer I do it to the headstock the easier it is.

Is it just me, and if not, is there a reason?

Paul, put a capo on the first fret, then see if it's easier. If it's a lot easier it's time for a setup.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:23 AM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hilton Head
Posts: 14,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Paul, put a capo on the first fret, then see if it's easier. If it's a lot easier it's time for a setup.
Not sure I understand. I have no trouble doing the chord on the first fret. It just gets hard if I am, say on the 8th fret and want to position my fingers like in the photo.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:26 AM
devellis's Avatar
devellis devellis is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,399
Default

Finger positions get more cramped as the frets get closer up the neck. So it's easier for the chord not to be played cleanly. Persistence will pay off. Or, like me, you can rely on partial chords rather than full barre forms as you move around the neck. Some partial chords with a thumb wrap work well up the neck. Many paths to victory.
__________________
Bob DeVellis
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:28 AM
Ed-in-Ohio's Avatar
Ed-in-Ohio Ed-in-Ohio is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA, Planet Earth
Posts: 3,630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulzoom View Post
I seem like on all my guitars I have a harder time doing an F Major (or whatever it's called when you do it farther up the neck) on the upper frets (8th fret, for example). The closer I do it to the headstock the easier it is.

Is it just me, and if not, is there a reason?

...snipped image...
Not just you. Barre chords get harder as you get further away from the nut because of the higher action. Lower action (should be no higher than 6/64" under the low-E at fret 12 (5/64" even better]) at the saddle, and lighter gauge strings will help.
__________________

2017 Alvarez Yairi OY70CE - Sugaree
c.1966 Regal Sovereign R235 Jumbo - Old Dollar
2009 Martin 000-15 - Brown Bella
1977 Gibson MK-35 - Apollo
2004 Fender American Stratocaster - The Blue Max
2017 Fender Custom American Telecaster - Brown Sugar
Think Hippie Thoughts...

Last edited by Ed-in-Ohio; 06-24-2017 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Removed erroneous content.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:29 AM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hilton Head
Posts: 14,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio View Post
Not just you. Barre chords get harder as you get further away from the nut because of the increased tension and higher action. Lower action (should be no higher than 6/64" under the low-E at fret 12 (5/64" even better]) at the saddle and lower tension strings will help.
That makes total sense. At least I know I'm not (totally) crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:47 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio View Post
Not just you. Barre chords get harder as you get further away from the nut because of the increased tension and higher action.
The string tension is uniform along the entire length of the string: the string tension does not increase as you get further from the nut. On the contrary, strings behave more stiffly near their end supports, nut and saddle.

In a well setup guitar there is little appreciable difference in required effort to fret notes nearer the nut or well up the fingerboard. That is, in part, the definition of a well setup guitar.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-24-2017, 08:51 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulzoom View Post
Not sure I understand. I have no trouble doing the chord on the first fret. It just gets hard if I am, say on the 8th fret and want to position my fingers like in the photo.
Oh, going down towards the sound hole, I took it the other way. It's still a setup issue. Too much relief, saddle too high are the first things that come to mind.

I've been playing for quite a while and whatever subtle difference there may be due to any possible string tension change, if it exists, is ignored by my fingers. Because of the arm angle change, the barre is actually a little easier for me at the higher frets.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:00 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Isle of Albion
Posts: 22,068
Default

I am not a great fan of barre chords but sometimes they can't be avoided.

Why not try the "thumb over" style

If you aren't familiar with this thing , from bass to treble:

6th - F - thumb ----- 1st fret.
5th - C - 3rd finger -- 3rd fret
4th - F - 4th -------- 3rd
3rd - A - 2nd ----------5th
2nd - C - 1st --------- 1st
1st - F - 1st -------- 1st

Moveable too.
__________________
Silly Moustache,
Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer.
I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:38 AM
jhmulkey jhmulkey is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 677
Default

In what way are you finding it harder as you go up the fretboard? I actually find it easier because the frets get closer together, so I don't have to stretch my index finger as far to form the barre. But perhaps you have larger hands than I and you're finding it too cramped as you move further up?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:46 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 35,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio View Post
Not just you. Barre chords get harder as you get further away from the nut because of the increased tension and higher action. Lower action (should be no higher than 6/64" under the low-E at fret 12 (5/64" even better]) at the saddle and lower tension strings will help.
There's no increase in string tension at the higher frets, that's complete nonsense. Pull a string up away from the guitar at the 12th fret then try it at the 1st fret. Where can you pull the string higher? It's easier at the 12th. It's also easier to do bends at the higher frets than the first fret. His "action" is too high.
__________________
Barry

Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}:


My SoundCloud page

Some steel strings, some nylon.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-24-2017, 10:01 AM
Silvereagles Silvereagles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: south Eastern Michigan
Posts: 82
Default

Paul,
Like others said a well setup guitar will help in being able to do barre chords, but it takes (3 Ps) practice, patience, and persistence that will achieve the goal.....


Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-24-2017, 10:03 AM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hilton Head
Posts: 14,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhmulkey View Post
In what way are you finding it harder as you go up the fretboard? I actually find it easier because the frets get closer together, so I don't have to stretch my index finger as far to form the barre. But perhaps you have larger hands than I and you're finding it too cramped as you move further up?
I actually have small hands. Can't explain it; it's just harder. This is on all five of my guitars so it's not the action because they have had set ups and play easily otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-24-2017, 10:04 AM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulzoom View Post
I seem like on all my guitars I have a harder time doing an F Major (or whatever it's called when you do it farther up the neck) on the upper frets (8th fret, for example). The closer I do it to the headstock the easier it is.

Is it just me, and if not, is there a reason?


For me this is just the difference in the angle of my arm&elbow with neck of guitar as I get closer to the body of the guitar. Near the headstock my arm is relaxed, but close to the body, I need to pull in some with my bicep to do a clean barre. Some people do it that way, might help.
__________________
"Militantly left-handed."

Lefty Acoustics

Martin 00-15M
Taylor 320e Baritone

Cheap Righty Classical (played upside down ala Elizabeth Cotten)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-24-2017, 10:04 AM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hilton Head
Posts: 14,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvereagles View Post
Paul,
Like others said a well setup guitar will help in being able to do barre chords, but it takes (3 Ps) practice, patience, and persistence that will achieve the goal.....


Dennis
I didn't say I can't do it. I'm just wondering why it's always harder as I go up the neck (towards the sound hole) as opposed to closer to the headstock.

And all five guitars have had set ups.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=