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  #16  
Old 07-02-2017, 04:37 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Ze, do you apply pressure using the finger muscles or by pulling back using the arm muscles? If you apply the pressure using your finger muscles then it's very easy to dig into the string (in my experience). Since I switched to using the arm muscles (to very gently pull the hand back) I've found I can play for hours with no strain or pain.

Last edited by s0cks; 07-02-2017 at 04:51 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2017, 07:31 PM
Ze. Ze. is offline
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Originally Posted by s0cks View Post
Ze, do you apply pressure using the finger muscles or by pulling back using the arm muscles? If you apply the pressure using your finger muscles then it's very easy to dig into the string (in my experience). Since I switched to using the arm muscles (to very gently pull the hand back) I've found I can play for hours with no strain or pain.
Never really noticed that socks but yea my whole hand nearly cramps up after 20-30 mins fairly quick chord changes even at the nut end of guitar ...
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:20 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Never really noticed that socks but yea my whole hand nearly cramps up after 20-30 mins fairly quick chord changes even at the nut end of guitar ...
Sounds like you might be carrying a lot of extra tension in your hand, Ze. Maybe check technique while you're checking that setup.
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2017, 11:22 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Never really noticed that socks but yea my whole hand nearly cramps up after 20-30 mins fairly quick chord changes even at the nut end of guitar ...
Yes, that's a technique issue. It sounds like you are using the finger and thumb muscles to do all the work. Ideally the finger muscles create the chord shape, and that's it. Pressure is applied by pulling back very gently on the neck - although I'm always hesitant to say "pull back" because in reality, most of the time you can just relax the arm to provide the pressure. Played this way the fingers and thumb will be very relaxed at all times.

Try this:

Create a simple open chord, like G. Place your fingers over the frets but just rest them lightly on the strings. In effect muting those strings. Now relax your arm so that it feels heavy. The elbow should also drop to your side. This relaxing causes the fingers to be pulled into the frets by the weight of the arm. Higher up the neck, or with barre chords, you might need to pull back on the neck a little with the bicep to get enough pressure. But the key here is using the large arm muscles, and not the finger muscles, to create the pressure.

I hope that is somewhat clear. Using this method the fingers will stay very relaxed, and the thumb is also very relaxed. In fact, in most cases the thumb only needs to lightly touch the back of the neck. The thumb should not be applying lots of pressure.
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2017, 11:27 PM
Ze. Ze. is offline
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Originally Posted by s0cks View Post
Yes, that's a technique issue. It sounds like you are using the finger and thumb muscles to do all the work. Ideally the finger muscles create the chord shape, and that's it. Pressure is applied by pulling back very gently on the neck - although I'm always hesitant to say "pull back" because in reality, most of the time you can just relax the arm to provide the pressure. Played this way the fingers and thumb will be very relaxed at all times.

Try this:

Create a simple open chord, like G. Place your fingers over the frets but just rest them lightly on the strings. In effect muting those strings. Now relax your arm so that it feels heavy. The elbow should also drop to your side. This relaxing causes the fingers to be pulled into the frets by the weight of the arm. Higher up the neck, or with barre chords, you might need to pull back on the neck a little with the bicep to get enough pressure. But the key here is using the large arm muscles, and not the finger muscles, to create the pressure.

I hope that is somewhat clear. Using this method the fingers will stay very relaxed, and the thumb is also very relaxed. In fact, in most cases the thumb only needs to lightly touch the back of the neck. The thumb should not be applying lots of pressure.
It all sounds logical socks thanks for drawing my attention to this ...it would seem i am squeezing too hard and as a result getting hand cramps....need to work on the technique you desscribe
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2017, 06:36 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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It all sounds logical socks thanks for drawing my attention to this ...it would seem i am squeezing too hard and as a result getting hand cramps....need to work on the technique you desscribe
IMO, the "weight of the arm" is misleading. If your guitar is facing forwards, then the weight of the arm would make your hand fall off the guitar, not hold the strings down.

The important point is to make sure the guitar is held firmly in place before you even touch it with the fret hand. The fret hand plays no part in holding the guitar neck in position. If the guitar is held firmly, then the thumb really does need very little pressure (if any) and the arm can pull back on the fingers.

s0cks is absolutely right the whole arm needs to feel relaxed. The only sensation of pressure is on the fingertips. The thumb supports from behind, but assisted by the bracing of the guitar by the right arm. It's definitely worth trying to fret a chord without the thumb at all, to see how much thumb you really need.
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Last edited by JonPR; 07-03-2017 at 07:47 AM.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2017, 01:24 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Yes, well we always get into this debate about the weight of the arm. It was described to me, when learning, as a relaxed and heavy arm. I'm sure we're doing the same thing, just describing it differently. As long as the pressure isn't coming from squeezing the neck with the fingers & thumb you're on the right track.
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