Sonic impact of inlays or rosettes?

[RilesMcGiles]

Purely out of curiosity, would love thoughts on this. I imagine it goes the way of the acoustic impact of a 3 piece back, or double top. There are differences, but largely minute to the untrained ear and certainly not necessarily negative.

A good builder matters more than the materials they work with in my opinion! (though I'd love to hear a plywood Greenfield just to put it to the test lol) However, I came across this Olson in Dream Guitars today. I think the impact is nil, but could anything be sonically altered by so much material replacing the wood of the neck? Sound is of course mainly from the body, but anyways thought it would be fun to see if any builders had thoughts on this.

Anyway, it sounds amazing so clearly it isn't impacted poorly!

[Earl49]

Not a builder myself, nor have I played one on TV, but I have done a lot of reading on the topic. The general consensus among those builders that have tried seems to be that it is nearly impossible to build two identical guitars that sound exactly alike. Even using adjoining flitches of wood from the same billet for successive guitars yields two instruments that sound noticeably different from one another. There is really no good way to quantify tonal changes that might be attributable to inlay, purfling, binding, etc. If there are six people participating in the conversation, there will be at least seven fervently held opinions. Most commonly will be: "...Literally every design element makes a difference.... but is it a difference that you can actually HEAR...."?

Pretty guitar, although a little over the top bling-wise for me.

[Alan Carruth]

Just for fun, look up some pictures of guitars by Joachim Tielke. The bodies and necks were all marquetry, often of ivory, tortoise shell, and pewter, but there was very little inlay on the soundboard. They are said to have very nice sound.

Most of the sound comes from the soundboard because:
1) it's the only part that can effectively produce sound that's being directly driven by the strings,
2) it's lighter than any other part that size,
3) it's facing the audience, and,
4) it's not being damped by contact with the player.

There is on specific 'neck' resonance that can affect the sound, primarily in the low range. It's not going to be changed by any inlay that you're likely to see. It almost never is high enough in pitch on steel string guitars. In the higher range (say, above the fundamental pitch of the open A string) the neck is effectively 'rigid' compared with the top, or even the back, and sound follows the path of least resistance. It is, however, just possible that a loose bit of inlay could vibrate at a particular pitch and produce a buzz, but that's a mistake that happens by chance, and I would not expect anybody that can do that level of inlay to make that sort of mistake.

[RilesMcGiles]

Wow you weren't kidding on Tielke's instruments..! Thanks for the insight.

[RilesMcGiles]

Agreed that the interpretation of sound is so subjective to one's taste and perspective also

[runamuck]

I'm not aware of any evidence that inlay on the fretboard will affect the tonal quality of a guitar.

[Silly Moustache]

Everything on a guitar affects the tone, but similarly, nothing affects it totally.

The maker's skill affects the tone considerably, but only when compared to an identical instrument made by someone else.

The density of the neck can affect tone considerably, but not as much as the quality and thicknessing of the top.

The material used for the back and sides influences the tone considerably but only when compared to another identical instrument with a different wood.

Strings, nut/saddle/Bridge pin materials, fretboard woods, headstocks, and tuning machines all affect tonality.

Strangely, who plays the thing can affect its tonality more than all the above.

What you had for breakfast all affect how you perceive tonality.

Best to buy a lot, so that you can decide which suits you best on the day.

[RilesMcGiles]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Everything on a guitar affects the tone, but similarly, nothing affects it totally.

The maker's skill affects the tone considerably, but only when compared to an identical instrument made by someone else.

The density of the neck can affect tone considerably, but not as much as the quality and thicknessing of the top.

The material used for the back and sides influences the tone considerably but only when compared to another identical instrument with a different wood.

Strings, nut/saddle/Bridge pin materials, fretboard woods, headstocks, and tuning machines all affect tonality.

Strangely, who plays the thing can affect its tonality more than all the above.

What you had for breakfast all affect how you perceive tonality.

Best to buy a lot, so that you can decide which suits you best on the day.

You remind me of when Frodo speaks with the elves near the Shire (in the Fellowship book) and he requests advice. Their leader responds somewhat riddle-like, and Frodo says 'it is said do not go to the elves for advice, for they will say both no and yes' HA!

But I agree that I should just buy some more

[Bruce Sexauer]

MOP/Abalone in the rosette adds weight to the top, but it is north of the X brace and well into the area of the top that I do my best to kill, sonically, so tonal impact of such weight is minimal to irrelevant, IMO.

On the other hand, the rosette has some often overlooked structural aspects which could come into play. One is that the rosette stiffens the sound hole lip, potentially, which theoretically increases the integrity and clarity of the projected sound. As long as the inlay does not interrupt the rigidity of the concentric inlaid rings, it may not matter. It is even possible that added weight in that area could contribute to inertial resistance to flutter.

Inlaying of the rosette is no longer limited to concentric abalone rings, and some rosettes I'v seen spread out onto the top considerably. This has the potential to get in the way of the upper bout's basic structure, in which case at some point it becomes more than ill advised. We all wrestle with our own demons, even if we have not yet recognized them

[doctone]

Apart from materials, I have experienced significant tonal differences depending on whether the rosette had been installed clockwise or counter-clockwise. The latter seems to emphasize minor chords.

(sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Earl49

....The general consensus among those builders that have tried seems to be that it is nearly impossible to build two identical guitars that sound exactly alike. Even using adjoining flitches of wood from the same billet for successive guitars yields two instruments that sound noticeably different from one another....

And still there is a lot of cachet attached to guitars using wood from "The Tree," "Lucky Strike," "Tunnel 13" and other legendary sources.

IMO there are some builders and marketers who see no irony in holding and espousing both viewpoints....

[Alan Carruth]

doctone wrote:
"I have experienced significant tonal differences depending on whether the rosette had been installed clockwise or counter-clockwise."

Somebody noticed that on my latest 'matched pair' of guitars, which sounded different, the hand cut owl inlay on the headstock of one leaned to the left, while the other leaned to the right. I don't think that made the difference though...

[eliseguitars]

Gabi Reti (youtuber) has a new video where she's creating a guitar with a thin decorative laminate on the top. https://youtu.be/scYWPjNZGRI
I love her videos but I do wonder whether from a purest point of view, gluing even a paper thin laminate to a top will kill some of the sound.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by doctone

Apart from materials, I have experienced significant tonal differences depending on whether the rosette had been installed clockwise or counter-clockwise. The latter seems to emphasize minor chords.

(sorry, couldn't resist.)

What if the guitars are left-handed? Do they have the opposite effect?

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by sinistral

What if the guitars are left-handed? Do they have the opposite effect?

Of course they do, unless played in the Southern Hemisphere.