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  #1  
Old 08-27-2015, 12:59 PM
Schau_ins_Regal Schau_ins_Regal is offline
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Default 4 pole endpin jack/plug

Hi there,

I am considering a new solution to get the signals from my DPA4099 and Sunrise Pickup to my preamp. Currently the Sunrise cable goes out of the soundhole and then sleeved together with the DPAs cable to the preamp.

I am wondering if it would be possible to get the two signals through an endpin jack out of the guitar so that I can leave the mic permantly on the guitar and be able to plug it in and out more quickly.

Spoke to techs of a DPA subsidiary here in Germany who told me that it wouldn´t be a good idea to cut the microdot cable and try to solder it. Nevertheless I think with an adapter from microdot to 3,5mm like this...

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/pro...138&item=24146

... it might be possible to get the signal connected to an endpin and vice versa from a plug to a microdot cable.

Presumed this works my problem is this... I will need an endpin with 4-poles, 2 for the Sunrise and 2 for the DPA, as well as an appropriate plug. Do you guys know any? I found some endpin jacks that are described as beeing 4-pole like these...

http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/am...k#.Vd9ck0Y773V

http://www.wdmusic.com/LJ60GD.html

http://www.musik-produktiv.de/fishman-switchjack.html

What really confuses me is that I cannot find a 1/4 inch plug which has 4-poles (TRRS) anywhere. Also the descriptions of the above jacks are saying that thay work with a standard TRS plug. So it seems that they do not really have 4-poles but that they are splitting the common ground to 2 poles. Is that right? If yes, does anybody know a real 4-pole jack/plug combination?

Thank you...
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2015, 01:21 PM
Lawliet Lawliet is offline
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how would you provide phantom power to the mic?
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Old 08-29-2015, 04:04 AM
Schau_ins_Regal Schau_ins_Regal is offline
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it is connected to the original DPA adaptor for the mic and gets phantom power from a device on my pedalboard.
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:25 PM
dberkowitz dberkowitz is offline
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No one I'm aware of makes a 1/4"/6.35mm TRRS connector. They're all 1/8". I even looked on Alibaba.
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Old 08-29-2015, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal View Post
What really confuses me is that I cannot find a 1/4 inch plug which has 4-poles (TRRS) anywhere.
Yes, I've looked for one of these for ages, doesn't seem to exist. You can use other types of connectors, DIN, etc, tho it may be hard to find one that fits right in a guitar. Trance uses a multi-pin jack for their stereo Amulet system, for example, that is 4 or 5 wires, if I recall. Most people just end up using two jacks if they need more than a stereo jack can support.
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Old 08-30-2015, 06:06 AM
Schau_ins_Regal Schau_ins_Regal is offline
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Hi Doug,

thank you first for your pickup tests which helped me to chose my equipment. I think I will leave it as it is then because i do not want to drill holes in my Goodall guitar. Would be a good option for a cheap one but not in this case. Think I will live with the cable of the Sunrise under my fretboard when I use it.

Best Regards, Christoph
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  #7  
Old 08-30-2015, 11:55 AM
Neon Soul Neon Soul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal View Post
Hi there,

I am considering a new solution to get the signals from my DPA4099 and Sunrise Pickup to my preamp. Currently the Sunrise cable goes out of the soundhole and then sleeved together with the DPAs cable to the preamp.

I am wondering if it would be possible to get the two signals through an endpin jack out of the guitar so that I can leave the mic permantly on the guitar and be able to plug it in and out more quickly.

Spoke to techs of a DPA subsidiary here in Germany who told me that it wouldn´t be a good idea to cut the microdot cable and try to solder it. Nevertheless I think with an adapter from microdot to 3,5mm like this...

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/pro...138&item=24146

... it might be possible to get the signal connected to an endpin and vice versa from a plug to a microdot cable.

Presumed this works my problem is this... I will need an endpin with 4-poles, 2 for the Sunrise and 2 for the DPA, as well as an appropriate plug. Do you guys know any? I found some endpin jacks that are described as beeing 4-pole like these...

http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/am...k#.Vd9ck0Y773V

http://www.wdmusic.com/LJ60GD.html

http://www.musik-produktiv.de/fishman-switchjack.html

What really confuses me is that I cannot find a 1/4 inch plug which has 4-poles (TRRS) anywhere. Also the descriptions of the above jacks are saying that thay work with a standard TRS plug. So it seems that they do not really have 4-poles but that they are splitting the common ground to 2 poles. Is that right? If yes, does anybody know a real 4-pole jack/plug combination?

Thank you...
Those are 4 conductor jacks but the 4 conductors are Tip Ring Switch Sleeve not Tip Ring Ring Sleeve.

They're for turning on internal electronics so you don't drain your batteries.

There aren't any commercial 1/4" TRRS jacks that I know of.

You'd be better off with a multi pin XLR or DIN connector.

Trance Audio can sell you a 5 pin endpin jack for $50 which, I think, is mini xlr. You could buy some 5 pin mini xlrs, a conductor cable and just skip one pin to make up your own custom cable and then a breakout box or something at the pedalboard end.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:30 PM
Schau_ins_Regal Schau_ins_Regal is offline
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Originally Posted by Neon Soul View Post
Those are 4 conductor jacks but the 4 conductors are Tip Ring Switch Sleeve not Tip Ring Ring Sleeve.

They're for turning on internal electronics so you don't drain your batteries.

There aren't any commercial 1/4" TRRS jacks that I know of.

You'd be better off with a multi pin XLR or DIN connector.

Trance Audio can sell you a 5 pin endpin jack for $50 which, I think, is mini xlr. You could buy some 5 pin mini xlrs, a conductor cable and just skip one pin to make up your own custom cable and then a breakout box or something at the pedalboard end.
Thank you for the information. That seems to be an appropriate possibility. I will contact Trance Audio regarding the jack.
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:06 PM
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Thank you for the information. That seems to be an appropriate possibility. I will contact Trance Audio regarding the jack.
I don't think they sell the jack alone, it's part of their system. Maybe they can tell you where you can but one, tho.

But stepping back a bit, let's consider what you want to do. You're trying to add a mic to your Sunrise. People do this all the time, with just a stereo jack. You wire the mic to the ring and ground, pickup to the tip, and run a stereo cord to a preamp that supplies 9 volts to the ring. Search here, and you'll find people asking about this setup practically every day. I do it with a DPA 4061, almost the same mic as the 4099, I just put it inside my guitar. And I do cut the microdot off - something I wouldn't advise unless you understand what you're doing - the wire is *very* fine, and you'll destroy the way the mic is meant to be used. The 4061 is a common choice, but people use other mics as well, the K&K Silver Bullet, an AKG, etc.

The thing that's unusual here is that you want to use the 4099 that's mounted outside your guitar. How would you get the DPA into the jack inside the guitar? Run it thru the soundhole? I guess that would work, but seems awkward. What you might consider is getting a microdot female connetor (I assume DPA can sell you such a thing). Then you can clip the 4099 onto your guitar, plug it into the jack inside the guitar, and go.

The 4099 is confusing because it's really a 2-wire electret mic, but comes with an adaptor that lets you power it from an XLR 48-volt mixer input. Without the adaptor, it's just ground and hot wire, and needs 9 volts T-power, which many guitar preamps provide: K&K Quantum, DTar Solstice, Grace Felix, and more.
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Old 08-30-2015, 04:16 PM
Neon Soul Neon Soul is offline
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I don't think they sell the jack alone, it's part of their system. Maybe they can tell you where you can but one, tho.
Just tell them you got their pickup system in a trade and it came without a jack. They'll sell you a replacement.
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Old 08-30-2015, 05:00 PM
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Just tell them you got their pickup system in a trade and it came without a jack. They'll sell you a replacement.
Well, he'll also need a matching cable, and some kind of breakout box. I wasn't suggesting that Trance was the right source for such a jack, just that they used one, so it exists. if you really want one, check electronics parts suppliers. But that's just the beginning of the custom path this leads to.

As I pointed out earlier, what is needed can be addressed with a simple stereo jack that still allows the setup to be used the same as it is now, and can still use the Sunrise with a standard guitar cord.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:57 AM
Schau_ins_Regal Schau_ins_Regal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I don't think they sell the jack alone, it's part of their system. Maybe they can tell you where you can but one, tho.

But stepping back a bit, let's consider what you want to do. You're trying to add a mic to your Sunrise. People do this all the time, with just a stereo jack. You wire the mic to the ring and ground, pickup to the tip, and run a stereo cord to a preamp that supplies 9 volts to the ring. Search here, and you'll find people asking about this setup practically every day. I do it with a DPA 4061, almost the same mic as the 4099, I just put it inside my guitar. And I do cut the microdot off - something I wouldn't advise unless you understand what you're doing - the wire is *very* fine, and you'll destroy the way the mic is meant to be used. The 4061 is a common choice, but people use other mics as well, the K&K Silver Bullet, an AKG, etc.

The thing that's unusual here is that you want to use the 4099 that's mounted outside your guitar. How would you get the DPA into the jack inside the guitar? Run it thru the soundhole? I guess that would work, but seems awkward. What you might consider is getting a microdot female connetor (I assume DPA can sell you such a thing). Then you can clip the 4099 onto your guitar, plug it into the jack inside the guitar, and go.

The 4099 is confusing because it's really a 2-wire electret mic, but comes with an adaptor that lets you power it from an XLR 48-volt mixer input. Without the adaptor, it's just ground and hot wire, and needs 9 volts T-power, which many guitar preamps provide: K&K Quantum, DTar Solstice, Grace Felix, and more.
Hi Doug,

thank you for your thoughts. My comments regarding the addressed issues:

1.) I know that there are mics that can be mounted inside the guitar. But I am so satisfied with the current sound so that I do not want to change the mic. I think I won´t get the same results from a mic that is placed in the body, right? Also I would have to spend additional money for it.

2.) I figured that the DPA4099 can be attached at the front side of the Sunrise. I would just make a custom 3D-printed mount and put it there with velcro. This would allow me a permanent installation of sunrise and mic that would also fit into the guitar case. I would just have to make the adjustments on the flexible arm of the mic.

3.) I did not know that I can use the DPA without the adapter. I also have a Solstice Preamp but I think it delivers 15V?! However I am hesitating a bit to change the wiring of the mic because I do not want to brake 500€....

Best Regards, Christoph
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Schau_ins_Regal View Post
3.) I did not know that I can use the DPA without the adapter. I also have a Solstice Preamp but I think it delivers 15V?! However I am hesitating a bit to change the wiring of the mic because I do not want to brake 500€....
What I'm suggesting is getting a female microdot connector - a jack, and wire that to the ring of a stereo jack (with the Sunrise on the tip). Now you can just unscrew the XLR adaptor on the 4099, and screw the 4099 microdot into the connector on your guitar. No damage to the mic. You will have 6 feet of cable to cram inside your guitar somehow, tho. Will this be better than just dealing with 2 cables? I'm not sure.

Another option is to find a Rare Earth Blend with the external mic mount. I think they stopped making these because no one wanted the mic sticking out the front, but this seems to be basically what you're trying to create.

Another option is simply an internal mic. By itself, you lose a little compared to the external position, but when blended with a mag, I suspect the end result will be very close, and much more convenient.
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:58 PM
Schau_ins_Regal Schau_ins_Regal is offline
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Hi Doug,

thanks for your comments. I think I will just leave it as it is and live with the effort to mount the 2 cables.

The only thing that bothers me that I have a cable going from the soundhole PU underneath/above the fretboard to meet the DPA cable at the side. But I think I will rather live with that than to spend further money for another mic. Also I do not really want to make a compromise regarding the sound.

So I think I will leave it like it is and try to make little optimizations. Maybe the mic and PU are not totally integrated into the guitar then and there are some disadvantages regarding handling. But on the other hand, I can put the Sunrise and the DPA on another guitar within minutes so that I won´t have to buy other PU´s for further guitars.

Best Regards, Christoph
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:04 PM
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The only thing that bothers me that I have a cable going from the soundhole PU underneath/above the fretboard to meet the DPA cable at the side.
Yes, that's the main reason I don't use the 4099 very much. It's hard to describe to people who haven't tried it, but the ergonomics are just awkward. It does sound good, tho. But I think I get a pretty good sound with an internal mic (I generally use a DPA 4061, which I've gotten on ebay for as little as $50), and if I want to top that, I just use a mic on a stand, way less hassle. All depends on if you are stationary when you play, tho. For me, using an external mic even has benefits, like being able to pull away from it when I tune, something you can't do with the 4099 in a fixed position.
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