I Can't Get No Relief

[Rodger Knox]

Originally Posted by Tedster

Well, maybe too much?

This is a beautiful sounding Guild DV4 spruce top and mahogany purchased at a shop almost 20 years ago, never even played it before I bought it, just told the guy I wanted a better guitar without spending too much money. He asked what kind of music I liked. Said Bob Dylan and Neil Young. It sat in a case for a long time.

Anyway, I got to measuring the string height at the 12th fret and it was quite low, and a little buzzy.

From my understanding, the Truss rod purpose is neck relief, not string height?
I did loosen the truss at concert pitch and got everything to "spec" - 6th E at 12th fret 7/64th or just shy of 1/8th of an inch. Intonation seems fine, volume better and much better sustain and it just sounds a lot better all around.

But if it matters, I put a straight edge down the neck and it's got enough relief to drive a truck under. I can shoot some photos with phone tomorrow I guess. It's also a little tough to play compared to before, I spent a couple hours with it because the tone or resonance was so much better, really put it through the paces with Drop D tuning, 1/2 step down, DADGAD, Open E, standard tuning etc. Using Martin 80/20 bronze

I guess my question is, do I really want a taller saddle, and a straighter neck or? It sounds good, that's the main thing.

Originally Posted by Tedster

I know exactly what a setup is. That isn't the issue. Now if you're claiming a proper setup can't be performed by _me_, well then maybe that's true! "Here There Be Dragons" eh?

What's the harm in learning anyway? It's not as fun as playing but, learning the nuts and bolts of guitars and their setup, and how things work ultimately makes one a better guitarist, I believe.

The second quote contradicts the first, if you really knew what a good setup is, then you wouldn't have asked if you wanted a taller saddle and straighter neck.

You've loosened the truss rod, which has raised the action and eliminated the buzz. It has also increased the relief to an excessive amount. The result is that the strings are higher than they need to be, especially higher up the neck. The proper adjustment would have been to shim the saddle just a bit to eliminate the buzz. The shim could be temporary and be replaced with a taller saddle, if you are one of those that believe that's better.

There's no harm in learning, I learned more about guitars in my first three years of building than I did in the previous 30 years of playing.

You've said the guitar sounds great, but playability isn't quite as good. Well, set the relief as I've explained in a previous post, and raise the action with a shim or taller saddle, and you should have the sound and the playability.

[Tedster]

Originally Posted by mirwa

It's not whether you can do it or not,
It's just You do not seem to understand the things involved in achieving a good setup.

Really?

On one hand you're telling me it's not a matter of whether I can do this or not, but earlier you say I don't know what a good setup is.

I know exactly what a good setup is.

I know what a bad set up is, too.

Now you go on to say i can't possibly know what is involved, or I don't have tools, or I might ruin my guitar, etc etc ad nauseam ad infinitum Jeeze Louise, I'm sorry but you need to learn to read for content. What makes you think this way?

Originally Posted by Tedster

What makes you think this way?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but your own elementary questions and contradictory statements indicate you don't quite understand what contributes to good playability. Nothing wrong with asking questions, but I don't understand the hostile responses to those trying to help.



I guess my question is, do I really want a taller saddle, and a straighter neck or?

I expect seasonal changes in humidity would raise or lower string height or relief somewhat over the years.

I understand the need to have proper neck relief before worrying about string height.

Measured between straight edge and top of 7th fret - exceeds .025", closer to .030" Hm.

Who makes a drop in replacement nut and saddle for these?

Alternatively, can some kind of shim be installed to raise the saddle height?

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by Tedster

I'm sorry but you need to learn to read for content. What makes you think this way?

Simple, I make a living out of fixing other peoples guitars after they have permanently ruined them. Broken truss rods, busted tops, broken necks

Go ahead, do a setup, its your guitar not mine, I was simply giving you some constructive advice IMO.

Tools - Do you have nut files, do you have height gauges, do you have profile gauges, do you have relief gauges, what about truss rod tools, fret crowning files, flat bars, double sided sandpaper, radius cauls,

If you dont have them, you risk permanent damage to your guitar by trying to over adjust the wrong area


Steve

[John Arnold]

Measured between straight edge and top of 7th fret - exceeds .025", closer to .030" Hm.

Too much relief has two characteristics:
1) Unnecessarily hard to play near the midpoint of the neck.
2) Buzzing is more likely on the upper frets.
Both of these are always true, regardless of the measured action at the 12th fret.
When the relief is correct, the tendency to buzz will be the same all along the neck.
Too little relief will cause buzzing near the nut.

I expect seasonal changes in humidity would raise or lower string height or relief somewhat over the years.

In my experience, most of the seasonal change is not a change in relief, but a change in the top belly (which will affect the action). In that case, adjusting the truss rod is not the correct remedy. The correct remedy is to raise or lower the saddle.

[Tedster]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

The second quote contradicts the first, if you really knew what a good setup is, then you wouldn't have asked if you wanted a taller saddle and straighter neck.

You've loosened the truss rod, which has raised the action and eliminated the buzz. It has also increased the relief to an excessive amount.

No. I know what a good setup is, not that I know all the steps to achieve it. See the difference? That's why I asked. It was more of a rhetorical question. If you read the very first post it was made clear that relief is not the way to adjust string height.

There sure are lots of assumptions made here, putting words in my mouth. Seems to me people just want to argue over stupid stuff.

No thanks.

[Tedster]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but your own elementary questions and contradictory statements indicate you don't quite understand what contributes to good playability. Nothing wrong with asking questions, but I don't understand the hostile responses to those trying to help.



I guess my question is, do I really want a taller saddle, and a straighter neck or?

I expect seasonal changes in humidity would raise or lower string height or relief somewhat over the years.

I understand the need to have proper neck relief before worrying about string height.

Measured between straight edge and top of 7th fret - exceeds .025", closer to .030" Hm.

Who makes a drop in replacement nut and saddle for these?

Alternatively, can some kind of shim be installed to raise the saddle height?

I get it, I really do. Thanks for your help.

LOL

[Rodger Knox]

Originally Posted by Tedster

No. I know what a good setup is, not that I know all the steps to achieve it. See the difference? That's why I asked. It was more of a rhetorical question. If you read the very first post it was made clear that relief is not the way to adjust string height.

There sure are lots of assumptions made here, putting words in my mouth. Seems to me people just want to argue over stupid stuff.

No thanks.

Originally Posted by Tedster

From my understanding, the Truss rod purpose is neck relief, not string height?
I did loosen the truss at concert pitch and got everything to "spec" - 6th E at 12th fret 7/64th or just shy of 1/8th of an inch. Intonation seems fine, volume better and much better sustain and it just sounds a lot better all around.

First you say the purpose of the truss rod is neck relief, which is absolutely correct.

Then you say you loosen the rod and set the action to spec, but the relief is excessive.

I believe the answers you seek may have been in my first post in this thread. If not, you can find them here:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/pagelist.html#Luthier