Online music theory classes?

[Deliberate1]

My biggest musical regret, other than waiting 62 years to pick up a guitar, is failing to get an education in music theory when I was studying woodwinds as a kid. I was taught to play the dots, which I surely learned, but was never encouraged to peek behind them.

I am writing songs on and for the guitar. I mess about with fingerings until I find something that sounds decent. I am learning a bit of theory as I go along. I figure that if I have a better grasp of theory, it will make song writing more efficient and interesting.

I know there are all kinds of video and written resources out there, and I have sampled them. But I find there are just too many, and are mostly snapshot lessons. I am looking for a more structured, sequential educational experience.

Unfortunately, there are no communtiy colleges in my rural part of a rural state that offer music education programming. So I am hitting the Web to see what options there may be, perhaps for auditing, from a distance, a college level theory course. And if it is guitar-specific, so much the better.

Thanks for any leads.
David

[mawmow]

I learned with books : I bought a bunch of those !

But I think the best way to learn is with pencil and paper
(I get back there every time I need to) :

Draw C major scale on the fretboard, then add the b3 to get the minor scale.

Then, look at the triads 1-3-5 and 1-b3-5 to get major and minor chords.

Add the b7…

Look for the 2 and 4 to get suspended chords as well as the minor 7/4.

Then the 6 and 9 (2 over the octave) to get the 6/9 chords.

Repeat the exercise in any key you want.

So, you get quite all you need.

For example : C scale

e|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E
B|-C-|---|-D-|---|-e-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B
G|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-e-|-F-|---|-G
D|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D
A|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A
E|-F-|---|-G-|---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|-D-|---|-E
0|-1---2---3---4--Â…

Replace the notes by their number in the scale,
add flats (b) but m for minor 3 and you get both
major and minor scales and the blue notes.

3|-4-|-b-|-5-|-6
7|-C-|—-|-2-|-m-|-3
5|—-|-6-|-b-|-7-|-C
2|-m-|-3-|-4-|-b-|-5
x|----|----|-C-|---|-
E|----|---|—--|---|-
0|-1---2---3---4--

Yeah, I did sketch all of them !

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

My biggest musical regret, other than waiting 62 years to pick up a guitar, is failing to get an education in music theory when I was studying woodwinds as a kid. I was taught to play the dots, which I surely learned, but was never encouraged to peek behind them.

I am writing songs on and for the guitar. I mess about with fingerings until I find something that sounds decent. I am learning a bit of theory as I go along. I figure that if I have a better grasp of theory, it will make song writing more efficient and interesting.

Well chosen words!
I.e. some people think it will improve their songwriting. That's not really the case (IME) - and I have been writing songs for over 55 years, and studying theory (informally) for over 40 years. But yes, I have found it makes the process both more efficient and more interesting. (Improvements in songwriting, if you're asking, come from studying more songs. Stealing more ideas from more people.)

In a way it's like learning about etymology makes the study of language more interesting. It doesn't help you speak better, or write better poetry, or whatever. It's just a fascinating insight into both history and structure.

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I know there are all kinds of video and written resources out there, and I have sampled them. But I find there are just too many, and are mostly snapshot lessons. I am looking for a more structured, sequential educational experience.

I don't know of any courses as such - i.e., which give you exercises and check your answers - but there are websites organised in a sequential way which you can work through in a sensible order.

You've probably found https://www.musictheory.net/ - by general agreement the best foundational site. If you want more classical depth, there is Seth Monahan: https://www.youtube.com/@SethMonahan...=dd&shelf_id=0 The videos are obviously listed in reverse order, so you need to go back to 1 to start.

For a more guitar-oriented series, there is this: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...x-toc.1371119/ - which I think is designed in progressive order but it gets very wordy and a bit rambling.

And one I personally find entertaining (but I can imagine is not everyone's taste) is 12tone's building blocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTOO...0TesncGT7qvO06

With all of these (and anything else you've sampled, and indeed with any book you get), the trick is to compare how each resource deals with one specific concept, and find what they have in common. You can be sure you then have the best info. And of course you may find that one person's manner of explaining just clicks better than another's.
Always make sure you can hear whatever you are studying. Ideally be able to play it on the guitar. Music theory gets baffling when you can't imagine what it will sound like. As I always say, music explains music theory; not vice versa.

For popular songwriting - and whether you're a Beatles fan or not - two excellent theory resources with a songwriting slant are this website: https://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes...alphabet.shtml - and this book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Songwriting.../dp/0711981671 Highly recommended!

[JackC1]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

So I am hitting the Web to see what options there may be, perhaps for auditing, from a distance, a college level theory course. And if it is guitar-specific, so much the better.

I think that's a great idea. This is the perfect subject for learning in a community college setting (good education and cheap cost).

I took a beginning theory course (of a sequential set of theory courses required for music majors), and it immediately made me a better musician (more on this later).

The class I took was 6hr/wk of classroom with an expected 6hr/wk of homework for a semester (5 months); so it was a non-trival time commitment.

There's a lot of hands-on in music theory learning that I didn't expect. For example, when I have questions, the professor would usually demo the answers on a piano. This level of interaction is just not available when learning from books and videos.

Here're a few things I learned in class:

- sing scales (major, minor natural/harmonic/melodic, modal except Locrian)/intervals; and aural id them.

- chord construction/progressions; how to move the music forward; aural id is limited to non-inverted triads and dom 7.

- rhythm/beat/phrasing/dynamics; aural id meters.

- strategies to setting tonal centers/switching keys/compositions; counterpoint/voice leading.

I'm probably forgetting some, but by the end of the class I was able to actually call out the meter of a song my son was listening to (and wanting to learn); I can also tell the scales being used; I can also call out the chord progressions of pop music; and know how I'm supposed to sound like (just that my skills aren't there; I can make it sound good in a sequencer with the right dynamics and phrasing); as a side benefit, I also learned how to sing somewhat.

The most surprising thing I learned from the class was that I shouldn't count the rhythm once I've played enough; I should just feel it/internalize it. Rhythm in class was taught using drums, and there are only a few common note sequences that are noramlly used in music (not the infinitely possible random arrangements).

Anyway, I'm probably rambling. After that beginning theory class, I realized that music is pretty deep and I come out of it knowing what I needed to do.

EDIT:

Oh, why did I forgot, lots and lots of dictation. I think I must have blocked that out of my mind because it gave me the hardest time

Also, I forgot to mention more about the "better musician" part. Basically, I feel that I took the class too early (I only had 1 year guitar and 2 years of ukulele experience; I also had many, many years of piano as a kid but I've forgotten most of that). I think ideally, should a theory class should be taken after 3 years of guitar experience to gain the maximum from the class.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

My biggest musical regret, other than waiting 62 years to pick up a guitar, is failing to get an education in music theory when I was studying woodwinds as a kid. I was taught to play the dots, which I surely learned, but was never encouraged to peek behind them.

Hi David…
I have a degree in music (was going to teach music for schools). Instead, I taught private fingerstyle guitar (intermediate and advanced) for 40 years locally (for $$) and still teach for fun.

The 4 years of college theory I took still pay dividends, but I doubt you want that formal training (in the amounts I experienced, absorbed, and apply them)

The best way to learn music theory is on a keyboard. Taking a semester of basic piano at a local community college is a worthwhile venture.

Barring your ability or desire to do that, the essential ingredient list for learning music theory is knowing:

• Scales - major & minor (in several keys)
• Basic Chord construction (in specific keys)
• Modifying and inverting chords
• Advanced chord construction
• Chord progressions - learning and recognizing them
• Transposing - with and without a capo
• Melody - construction and memory of
• Harmony - constructed and spontaneous
• Interval training
• Ear Training
• Learning a Numeral based chord system

How formally & deeply you choose to delve into it, and how well you can integrate them into your guitar playing will result in theory being useful.

There ARE guitar theory books, and the more useful ones will cover the list I jotted above…which is more work to learn these on a guitar without a coach.

Once you understand the basic theory ingredients, it's easy to transfer concepts to the neck of our guitars.

This is just my basic list I covered with long term intermediate and advanced guitar students I taught for 4 decades.

[rick-slo]

Mostly what JonPR said. If you get really versed in music theory and know well how many different chords are fingered on the guitar you
have a chance of putting that to creative use but best to do a lot of listening to music, do some analysing of what you hear and steal and
adapt shamelessly. Possibly compose, record, and post something for the some critical (as needed) feedback.

[Deliberate1]

Friends, I am truly grateful for the time you all took to respond with your own experiences, rich insights and web resources. I will dive into each of your suggestions.

The idea of musical "theft" is one James Taylor revisited in concert two weeks ago when I saw him in Bangor, Maine. The opener was Something in the Way She Moves. He said it was the song he played for the Beatles in the course of his Apple audition. And that Paul McCartney liked it so much "he went home and rewrote it." No matter, he went on, acknowledging that he has "stolen" much from the Beatles over the years. It is interesting to me (both as a musician and a lawyer) that musicians of an earlier time just accepted this kind of appropriation as a fact of life in the organic development of musical progress. But, in today's litigious society, many musicians (or their recording companies) just go to court.

I should have revealed that I have an ulterior motive for becoming more familiar with music theory. I play lead tenor/clarinet in a 17 piece jazz band. We do big band charts, many of which have solo passages for my chair. I look at the written changes, but do not really know what to do with them, other than access the root. To compensate, I have, over the past 45 years, developed a very keen ear for changes. If I can hear it from the rhythm section, I can play on top of it. Part of that is knowing my horns as well as I do (for about 60 years). While I can capably anticipate when a change is going to happen and where it is likely to go, there are times when I get thrown. That is when reading a roadmap of written changes would be really helpful.

Again, I am much obliged, as always, for the guidance.

David