Gibson Adjustable Bridge Saddle Options?

[lakehaus]

I'll receive a vintage 1968 Gibson J-160e tomorrow as part of a trade deal I recently completed for my contemporary Rickenbacker. It has the OEM adjustable bridge. When it arrives, I'll form my own opinion on the bridge's tone and performance, trying to remain unbiased. But I've read some pretty discouraging copy about their function, and I'm preparing myself to address a 'fix' if in fact what I read is true.

I'm pretty good at fabricating parts made of wood, metal, plastic, bone... and have an idea visualized where I'd copy the basic outline of the OEM saddle insert using ebony, cut a slot for a bone or ivory saddle, and compensate for intonation accordingly. I'll likely build one no matter how the OEM bridge impresses me.

But before I go through the labor, does anyone know of aftermarket parts available for the adjustable bridge saddle? I've found a site that offers a fully tusq insert, but I personally don't care for tusq.

Thanks!

[Howard Klepper]

On a J-160e it hardly matters.

If you alter the bridge, you will lower its resale value, which stems largely from John Lennon having used one.

[D. Churchland]

The j160e has literally no tone whatsoever. The bridge really doesn't matter too much. Thaat really means that you would do better just to leave it alone. All I'd do is put a set of electric 12s on it and play away

[lakehaus]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

On a J-160e it hardly matters.

If you alter the bridge, you will lower its resale value, which stems largely from John Lennon having used one.

I'm talking about the saddle itself... removing it an replacing it with another that I craft out of ebony, slotted for a bone or ivory saddle insert.

This part, right here, is what I'm talking about. Using it as a template to craft another one as mentioned above. This mod is reversible without any alteration to the bridge whatsoever, at least from what I can tell. The original saddle could be replaced when I go to sell the guitar.

[Looburst]

I did replace the ceramic saddle on my Gibson J45 from 1964 with a bone saddle of the very same, or almost the same, shape and size. Bought it on eBay and only had to do some light side to side sanding, to make it fit right in the bridge. Worked perfectly and did sound much better when installed. The ceramic saddle had a glassy sound that worked but didn't have as much volume. The J160 is a bit of a sound downer but hopefully yours will be different.

[John Arnold]

I have replicated the entire saddle in bone. It takes a big chunk, but I like the results better than an adjustable wood/bone combination. And if it is accurately reproduced and polished, it is indistinguishable from an original ceramic saddle.
You can also go to a nonadjustable saddle that is easily reversible. The difference is that the adjusting screws are not used. Make a Brazilian RW insert that fits snugly in the bridge slot and cut a 1/8" wide slot in it to accept a bone saddle. This sounds better than an adjustable saddle, but doesn't look original.

[RodB]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

....... Make a Brazilian RW insert that fits snugly in the bridge slot and cut a 1/8" wide slot in it to accept a bone saddle. This sounds better than an adjustable saddle, but doesn't look original.

This is the fix I had done on a Gibson Blue Ridge from the 60's. This was done by a local luthier, who also reduced the height of the bridge slightly. You have to look very closely to detect the mod. Sound improved considerably.

[duluthdan]

Originally Posted by lakehaus

I'll receive a vintage 1968 Gibson J-160e tomorrow as part of a trade deal I recently completed for my contemporary Rickenbacker. It has the OEM adjustable bridge. When it arrives, I'll form my own opinion on the bridge's tone and performance, trying to remain unbiased. But I've read some pretty discouraging copy about their function, and I'm preparing myself to address a 'fix' if in fact what I read is true.

I'm pretty good at fabricating parts made of wood, metal, plastic, bone... and have an idea visualized where I'd copy the basic outline of the OEM saddle insert using ebony, cut a slot for a bone or ivory saddle, and compensate for intonation accordingly. I'll likely build one no matter how the OEM bridge impresses me.

But before I go through the labor, does anyone know of aftermarket parts available for the adjustable bridge saddle? I've found a site that offers a fully tusq insert, but I personally don't care for tusq.

Thanks!

Here ya go. http://www.philadelphialuthiertools....ustic-guitars/

[pops]

I have done what John suggests many times and it has improved the sound each time. Yes it is reversible. Eliminating the screws is what helps not changing the material between them.

[lakehaus]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

I have replicated the entire saddle in bone. It takes a big chunk, but I like the results better than an adjustable wood/bone combination. And if it is accurately reproduced and polished, it is indistinguishable from an original ceramic saddle.
You can also go to a nonadjustable saddle that is easily reversible. The difference is that the adjusting screws are not used. Make a Brazilian RW insert that fits snugly in the bridge slot and cut a 1/8" wide slot in it to accept a bone saddle. This sounds better than an adjustable saddle, but doesn't look original.

Oh... yeah... I like this idea!

[lakehaus]

So, the guitar arrived on Thursday. I unpacked it on Friday. Started to work on it right away after giving it a tryout. Yes, it is a ladder-braced guitar designed to accommodate more electric play than acoustic play, but still sounds pretty good. It's no competition for my '79 D-35, but it wasn't meant to be. I've always wanted a J-160e, despite its perceived shortcomings.

The original adjustable saddle appears to be made of rosewood, and sounded okay, but kinda dull. The nut was an aftermarket Tusq, probably installed when this material was introduced because the patina was quite old. But I don't like Tusq, so I salvaged an old ivory nut from a Flying V whose slots I cut too deeply. It required minimal alteration to fit.

I had some scrap Brazilian from other projects, and crafted an insert using an old piece of blank, unbleached bone to make the compensated saddle. Although it really improved the overall tone (coupled with the ivory nut), I'll still order a blank ivory saddle from Colosi this week. I need to extend the treble side slot by about 1/8" - I mis-measured using my crude jig.

Finally, the pots were aftermarket Japanese brand - 100K on the V, and 500K on the T, with a green chicklet .022 cap. I had a set of 1965 CTS 500K pots and an old Sprague Vitamin Q .12µF cap that I swapped in, and provided a ground strap to a brass plate I made to place over the chewed up bridge plate. It's dead silent now, and the tone is really enhanced!

The original rosewood saddle, Tusq nut, height adjustment bolts, and plastic bridge pins are on in the non-original 90s Cali Girl case. Next swap will be correct double/double tuners (it has '70s nickel tulips on it now), Colosi bone pins, and correct witch hat black knobs.

The bridge mod:




The ivory nut:

[lakehaus]

And just for the heck of it, I'll post these pics since I lengthened the saddle slot, then crafted and installed an ivory saddle.

This guitar provides me a great feel, and reminds me of my old LG-1 regarding its voice. It amplifies nicely, but it's not in the same class whatsoever as my '79 Martin D-35. That guitar has a projection like no other acoustic I've played. Ever.

I was looking for something different, and certainly found it here! I'm diggin' it for sure, especially the way that neck feels and plays. The ivory nut and saddle do add greatly to its tonal characteristic, there's more depth the the acoustic value - more pronounced bass, flat but present mids, and bright treble.

[BB Brown]

Nice work, came out great.
I just picked up a B 25, 1967. Someone replaced the original saddle with a plastic intonated one. I was thinking of just making a replica of that one but in bone. What's the advantage of making the Rosewood insert? Is Having a small saddle better.

[Mr Fingers]

Interesting thread. Many players dump on these Gibsons for their failure to be Martins, and it's true that the bridge design and other features are going to limit the acoustic tone. But the absence of booming bass, loads of treble overtones, and sharp articulation is why so many artists make a positive choice to play and record with Gibsons. Lennon wasn't an idiot. Nor is Tom Petty. It's just a different sounds for different uses and different tastes thing, isn't it? Sure, some of those Gibsons are truly dead guitars, but adjustments like yours will help, and it's great to have different sounding guitars around. I love them both. Nice job. And for some reason, I don't like Tusq either.

[mirwa]

Some serious compensation happening now down at the bridge, with the original saddle slot, new compensated saddle, how does the open string and the fretted 12th sound on each string.

Steve