UST Pickup in a D-18 Authentic

[mwalk]

I'm considering buying a D-18A. They have to old school saddles, though. I really like the Fishman Matrix pickup. Am I screwed?

[SpruceTop]

It's more difficult to get a UST to work with a through bridge-saddle because of having to get the cut-out depth in the bridge-saddle just right for even pressure on the pickup. The only reason, IMHO, to install a UST is if it's to be used in conjunction with a Fishman Aura Pedal as the combination will yield good amplified tone.

I recommend installing a Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT as the two Amulet Lens transducers can be removed from, or repositioned on, the bridgeplate, at will, and the amplified tone will be far superior to a UST as the system picks up top and body resonance and the onboard preamp is audiophile grade.

http://www.tranceaudio.com/amuletm.html

Regards,

SpruceTop

[mwalk]

I would be using it with my Aura.

[kydave]

UST Pickup in a D-18 Authentic

Bad idea, but you've rejected the opinions offered in the other thread, so you know what people think.

[mwalk]

Jesus, man, you just don't quit! Please don't hijack this thread, too, unless you can help with the question I asked. I know there are other good pickup options, and I will certainly consider them if I can't use the pickup I like the most.

[kydave]

I don't know what you do or don't know about the construct. Many people with a lot of playing experience assume that putting in a UST is no different than a shim. It is not and will impact the lovely sound that you presumably bought the Authentic to get.

This is a UST.



Yes, you can have one installed under a long saddle by a skilled craftsman who knows what they are doing and have it still look OK.

See this Frets article by Frank Ford.

Through Saddle Pickup








If that is what you really want at this point in your life, it can be done.

Go for it. You can always repair it later.

I am honestly trying to help you with the voice of experience.

[mwalk]

That's the first helpful post you've given. Thank you.

Do you - or does anyone else - have any playing experience with a Matrix (or any UST) installed in a guitar with this sort of saddle? Do you actually hear a difference unplugged? I ask because in my other several guitars that I have or have had a Matrix in, I hear no difference unplugged. I currently have one in a Huss & Dalton and a Santa Cruz, and they both still sound like really nice guitars.

[kydave]

Originally Posted by mwalk

That's the first helpful post you've given. Thank you.

Do you - or does anyone else - have any playing experience with a Matrix (or any UST) installed in a guitar with this sort of saddle? Do you actually hear a difference unplugged? I ask because in my other several guitars that I have or have had a Matrix in, I hear no difference unplugged. I currently have one in a Huss & Dalton and a Santa Cruz, and they both still sound like really nice guitars.

Yes. As I've said, I've used the Fishman UST's in Martins for many years.

I did a carefully controlled experiment so that the memory lag was minimal and the strings were the same (two of the biggest critiques offered when people voice opinions about the discernible sound change).

On my '99 Martin 0000-28H, which I bought used having a Fishman in it & owned for a while prior to doing this, so I was very familiar with the guitar:

I prepared a new saddle so that the height of it would be identical to the current height of the old saddle with the UST under it;

I played the guitar for a while getting it in my head;

I put a capo on to keep strings in place and loosened them enough to pop the pins;

I pulled out the saddle, pulled up and snipped off the UST, dropped in the new saddle, popped the string balls back in and retuned;

I was back to playing in less than five minutes with the same strings and same action/string height.

There was a noticeable improvement in the sound, but that simply stands to reason if you look at the construction of the multipart shim you're putting in your acoustic vibration sound chain. The UST is not going to make your guitar sound crappy unplugged and it may not be a dramatic improvement without it. But the physics & common sense dictate that there will be a change, and all things considered, one would expect the guitar as built and designed to be at its best acoustically without the impediment in the sound chain.

BTW, I enjoyed your singing.

[lmacmil]

FWIW, a guy at an open mic I frequent has a Fishman Matrix Infinity in his D-35 and to me, it doesn't sound very good at all. And I am not anti-UST. When I had a Baggs Element in my Martin I thought it sounded just fine.