"Stepping-up" in brand

[Steve DeRosa]

Used to own several high-end acoustics, including a '73 D-45 and a few Big Band-era Epiphone and Gibson archtops...

Over the last decade I haven't spent more than $1500 on a guitar - and most have been under $1000...

The Ovation Custom Balladeer I bought for $250 brand-new w/HSC in 1982 - first-generation transducer bridge, single volume knob - is still my plug-&-play open mic/coffeehouse/jam-band guitar; got a setup that'll rival the best Taylors (I own four of those so I speak from experience), unplugged volume up the wazoo, tough as they come - and actually sounds like a loud "acoustic" guitar when used the way Charlie Kaman intended (through the low-gain input of a mid/high-powered electric-guitar amp)...

My go-to unplugged acoustics are a Martin D-15S and J12-15 (both unfortunately discontinued) - paid around $800 for the 12-string and $600 for the dread, both brand-new/first-quality with warranty from authorized dealers - and I'm giving up absolutely nothing in terms of tone and playability to higher-end models...

Barring the unforeseen my next acoustic is going to be a Gibson J-15 ($1499 street), as soon as I can unload some low-usage stuff - never played one that I didn't like, and it's the only Gibson flattop other than the (substantially more-expensive) AJ that I could really bond with...

I've been in this game for 55 years, and IME there's a point of diminishing returns as you go up the ladder - to paraphrase (banjomaker) Greg Deering, you can buy fancier instruments but not necessarily better ones. As the current market has proven quality materials assembled with care, and attention to final QC and setup, will result in a professional-quality instrument at a price readily accessible to the average Working Joe/Jane - or little Joey/Janie taking their first lessons; while the absolute perfection of detail may not always be there (and I can cite a number of examples that would put that oft-cited argument to rest), there's no reason for a cash-strapped adult player or enthusiastic younger student to be stuck with the trainwrecks that passed for entry-level/intermediate guitars when I started playing - and for those who favor substance over bling we're living in the second Golden Era IMO...

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by downtime

My buying and selling curve has been much like the OP's watch analogy.



I started with an Art & Lutherie cedar and was happy with it for a couple years.

After the point where I decided I was going to stick with the acoustic guitar I moved up to low end Taylors and Martins.

From there I "traded up" to mid range Martins then a few boutique along the way, Huss & Dalton, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois and Goodall.



Eventually I purchased a few luthier build guitars: Jesse Stearn, Ostoff and an Olson SJ.

Along the way I dabbled in vintage with a banner LG-2 among others. All these guitars purchased previously owned which allowed me to try many guitars without really ever taking a hit when re-selling.



At this point, 10 years later, I have learned where my comfort zone is (for now anyway) on price vs tone. I have learned that after around the $2500 mark the up-tick in tone is not worth the extra cash to me, my ears and my playing style.



I've settled on a couple nice mid-range guitars that make me perfectly happy and my self imposed discomfort of owning a multi-thousand dollar music box is put to rest.



My current guitars:

Martin 000-18ge

Gibson J-45

Halcyon OM

Harmony Sovereign H1203

That's a great lineup. I bet there are a TON of folks who have had lesser brands. Bought Martin's/Taylor/Gibson's Got major GAS and went up the chain and eventually returning to those brands.

A journalist wrote in Forbes magazine about Rolex once.

There are 3 basic levels of Rolex appreciation.

1 - Rolex is the best (the new watch enthusiast)
2 - Rolex is for suckers (the new connoisseur)
3 - Rolexes are actually pretty good watches. (The grizzled veteran)

Seems to apply here too!

[jmjohnson]

For the most part I have stuck with Martin, though most have come and gone; Everything from my 1st guitar - a Martin OMC-15e, OM-1 ('beater'), various other -15s (for lower cost), -18GE, -21s, -28s, a GPCPA1 & 2, up to a D-28 Marquis.

Had a Guild D-50BG I loved (better than an HD28), a couple Taylors that came and went, and recently got a Gibson LG that's a keeper and a great value.

I am very big on company history - I like reading about their past. I like US-made. I like good reputations. 'Pride in ownership' is part of the contentment factor. Taylor, Gibson, Martin, Guild...

I also like getting/having things that are 'different'.

Several things convince me on 'stepping up', sometimes just wanting something different/'better', but only when it seems worthwhile. I always ask 'would I want another of these xxx?'. A few times I found something 'so good I just had to have it', and that is easier to stomach with a trade-in.

Unfortunately, in the last couple years, it seems prices on things 'up the ladder' are getting beyond what I want to spend.

[RichardP]

My "step-up" is a bit unusual. I had the good fortune of having my dad's 1950 Martin D18 as my first guitar. (Still have it by the way.) At this point in my 70+ year life I have so much sentimental value on the D18 that I didn't want to take it on trips. Bought a Blueridge 143A and like it. Went from there to a Taylor 114e and recently picked up my favorite upgrade...a Taylor 414ce-R. So..I guess no matter where we start, an upgrade is nice.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by RichardP

My "step-up" is a bit unusual. I had the good fortune of having my dad's 1950 Martin D18 as my first guitar. (Still have it by the way.) At this point in my 70+ year life I have so much sentimental value on the D18 that I didn't want to take it on trips. Bought a Blueridge 143A and like it. Went from there to a Taylor 114e and recently picked up my favorite upgrade...a Taylor 414ce-R. So..I guess no matter where we start, an upgrade is nice.

Congrats on the 414-ce-R. That's an amazing guitar for a great price! Taylor really does the spruce/EIR really well!

Originally Posted by jmg257

For the most part I have stuck with Martin, though most have come and gone; Everything from my 1st guitar - a Martin OMC-15e, OM-1 ('beater'), various other -15s (for lower cost), -18GE, -21s, -28s, a GPCPA1 & 2, up to a D-28 Marquis.

Had a Guild D-50BG I loved (better than an HD28), a couple Taylors that came and went, and recently got a Gibson LG that's a keeper and a great value.

I am very big on company history - I like reading about their past. I like US-made. I like good reputations. 'Pride in ownership' is part of the contentment factor. Taylor, Gibson, Martin, Guild...

I also like getting/having things that are 'different'.

Several things convince me on 'stepping up', sometimes just wanting something different/'better', but only when it seems worthwhile. I always ask 'would I want another of these xxx?'. A few times I found something 'so good I just had to have it', and that is easier to stomach with a trade-in.

Unfortunately, in the last couple years, it seems prices on things 'up the ladder' are getting beyond what I want to spend.

Yes it seems as prices continue to inflate many of the top-tier guitars become harder and harder to afford!

[j.blay]

My story is similar to this threads author. I had a cheap Alverez for over 30 years. Bought my first Taylor after around a 15 year hiatus, and playing one at a camp out. Made me realize how crappy my Alverez was set up. Since then, I've re-committed to write songs and play daily for the last several years. I've bought, sold and traded for many fine guitars. Played my dream guitar at a small, local guitar shop who has consignment guitars. This and gave me the opportunity to play many fine/expensive ($3000-$20,000) Luthier built, boutique guitars. As luck would have it, I was able to trade for a dream guitar, right here, on AGF. Now I'm down to these 3.

1) Jake Robinson, Bear Claw Sitka/Old Growth Brazilian SJ
2) Takamine TF340S BG.
3) Yamaha FG 800.

[Looburst]

I upgraded too, but didn't sell any, to a Presentation LDBO this past year. Upgrade indeed! Number #4 of only 8 built in highly figured Brazilian Rosewood. There were 10 built in all but two went to markets outside the US. and built with other back and sides woods.

[ChrisE]

I had only my cheap 1980's Sigma for about 30 years then decided I needed something with a pickup to play with the band at church, so I got a nice (for me) Alvarez for $300 which seemed pretty extravagant at the time.

I played the Alvarez for a few years until I started getting more gigs and decided that since I was a "professional musician" I needed a professional guitar. That led me to my Taylor 314ce.

Then I made the "mistake" of visiting the Martin factory in Nazareth. That led to two years of severe GAS until I ended up getting a new D-18 a couple of months ago.

I think I'm done for while. No more stepping up.

I do have a Mexican Telecaster, though, and I've noticed some pretty good deals on American Teles. Or maybe I should get a Les Paul Studio? Wait...what was I saying?

[jpd]

Josh....lately I've begun the reverse challenge...to step *down*. Sold all my Gibsons and all but one Martin, and discovered some great economical Pac-Rim builds.

[posternutbag]

I was a diehard Martin fan until I played my Bourgeois Vintage D. It is adirondack spruce over EIR. It really is the best guitar I have ever played, just a flatpicking machine. I have had 2 D18s and an HD28, all were great guitars, but the Bourgeois seems to combine the best tonal qualities of both. It has plenty of D28 bottom end, but it also has the mid range punch of a D18. It really has everything a flatpicker could want. It wouldn't be my choice for a fingerstyle guitar, way too focused and dry, but for a through and through grasser, perfect.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by jrs146

What's your guitar brand story? Did you "step-up" along the way? Does the quality/tone increase as you move of the brand chain? Is there even really a brand chain? How do you try all of these out to really find what you like? Where do you stop, lol?

About six years ago I dove into the acoustic guitar. I found this place. I started buying/selling/trading guitars almost exclusively here with a few coming and going from craigslist, Reverb and just local players. I did this to try to find out what 'my guitar' would be.

After a while it became apparent that I preferred smaller body, 00 12-fret guitars as I kept coming back to them. This was a surprise. I also was surprised to find that while I prefer the sitka over rosewood sound with it's scooped mids and overtones, for the type of playing I do (fingerstyle, singer/songwriter) the dry, mid-forward woodiness of mahogany actually sounds better.

Other things I found over time: Much prefer Martin tone to Taylor tone. Not a fan of dreads, though love the tone. Prefer 1 3/4" nut and 2 1/4" spacing although can live with 2 3/16". Much prefer short scale. Much prefer V necks although soft V's. Didn't like classic burst finishes (Gibson) but came to really like (and even prefer) burst finishes that are subtle (Martin Ambertone, SC shade burst on 1929s). Prefer the simplicity of K&K pickups.

In the end I'm down to one wood guitar, the Santa Cruz 1929 00 burst (all hog). I also have a Journey Overhead OF660 carbon fiber travel guitar that I'll sell as soon as I get the custom Emerald X20 I have on order. I want to have one nice wood guitar and one nice carbon fiber. I'm almost there.

For those that care to see how my transition occurred, here is the line-up I went through with the understanding that there is likely some omissions and/or mix-up in timelines. I generally owned two at a time (starting with the first Martin 000-28EC), one designated a keeper and one a trader but there were times of overlap when I owned three and even four at a time:

No-name dread
Yamaha dread (FG something)
Alvarez dread
Tacoma EM9C
Martin 000-28EC
Martin 00-28VS
Huss & Dalton 00 Special
Journey OF420
Emerald X20 Artisan
Kronbauer TDK
Kronbauer SMB
Martin D18GE
Martin 000-28VS
Martin OM-35
Santa Cruz 00
Martin 000-28EC (again, but different guitar)
Rainsong APLE Shorty
Martin 00-18VS UMGF
Santa Cruz 1929 00 plain
Santa Cruz 1929 00 burst
Huss & Dalton Custom MJC
Breedlove Master Class Presentation Skyline 000
Bourgeois Custom Slope D

For me I stopped when it became apparent that I loved the SC 1929 00. As you can see I tried a couple more, different models, sizes, builders, etc. The H&D MJC was something special but too large and long scale. The other big impetus for getting out of the game is that the market became so saturated that buying and selling became much more difficult and stressful. I am truly glad to be out of the game and do not miss it at all. Not sure if that's just because how much I love the little SC or low-stress of not worrying about having to sell a guitar and take a beating.

I'm hoping the custom X20 will be everything I hope it is and then I will be done for a very long time or until some 'free' money comes my way. I do still have a few guitars I want to someday try and possibly own (Lowden S50 comes to mind) but I will only do that if I finally learn to play in DADGAD AND I find myself with $10g to play with!

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by jrs146

So far I've either owned or spend a lot of time with:

Baby Taylor
Taylor GS-Mini Mahogany
Taylor 314
Taylor 514
Taylor 816ce
Taylor 814ce
Taylor 814ce DLX*
Martin HD-28*
Martin OM-28VTS*
Gibson J-200 Rosewood
Gibson Dove

(* indicates what I currently still own)



So my question really is:
What's your guitar brand story? Did you "step-up" along the way? Does the quality/tone increase as you move of the brand chain? Is there even really a brand chain? How do you try all of these out to really find what you like? Where do you stop, lol?

My other hobby is collecting watches and it's easy to get caught up in the watch brand trap. Many people start out owning a lower priced watch (Tag, Omega). Get into the hobby and step-up to a mid-priced watch (Rolex, JLC,IWC) and then eventually "graduate" to one of the higher-end brands (Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe) only to come back down to somewhere in the middle and eventually be happy with that.
Josh

Hey Josh!

First, I confess that I've photographed all of the above mentioned watch brands for a watch broker and will tell you, compared to guitars watch collectors are nuts (no offense meant). After all, how many different ways can you tell time? $30k, $40k, $70k for a watch that won't do any more for you functionally than a Timex? Just curious as to why you collect watches?

For me it's not about "stepping up". For me it's first about the sound and if it fills a niche in my arsenal of guitars. I don't have a favorite brand and I've played enough guitars to know that in every model there are gems and dogs. Within the scheme of filling sonic niches, I take the position that a guitar can be a hard asset or "currency hedge", if you will. Money on my bank statement does nothing for me and the US greenback, Euro, Yuan all fluctuate as do precious metals. Hence my rule of NEVER buying a NEW instrument unless I can get it for the same price as used. I want all my instruments to have that first big hit of depreciation off the table before I plunk down my money for them.

FWIW, in the late 90's through 2010 or so while not thinking in terms of investments or a currency hedge, I collected used higher end trumpets (playing semi-professionally in several different types of groups). My trumpet teacher says I am "legendary" for the way I care for my instruments. Consequently when it was time to dial back my trumpet playing I sold of alot of my inventory and used the profits from it to finance my guitar collection. I now have a wide range of electrics from relatively cheap to professional models and some decent acoustics (got one more in my sights that I'm going to scope out tomorrow). In other words, I don't see my guitar purchases as a straight out expense, but simply a matter of value and available cash flow and musical desire.

That's my story... and I'm sticking to it.

[Kayper]

Originally Posted by jpd

Josh....lately I've begun the reverse challenge...to step *down*. Sold all my Gibsons and all but one Martin, and discovered some great economical Pac-Rim builds.

I did that as well. Sold 2 Martins to lighten the load in the guitar room, and to buy an Alvarez Blues 51 (I fell in love with the tone).

Someone else mentioned that if you buy/sell alot, you don't know what you are looking for. That was me. Now that I admit I like an "old" sound, it is easier to avoid GAS by going to GC, playing some, and going, "nice but not for me".

It feels good to play every guitar I own every day.

I doubt I will ever buy another guitar for the headstock name. Striking a chord on the Alvarez and saying out loud "Oh my goodness" cured me.

[rogthefrog]

Brands are kind of a red herring. You're stepping up in the quality of your individual instruments. That's a common experience as one's ears and fingers learn to discern finer distinctions in tone and playability, and you learn what works for you.

It's​ fun, but it can get expensive

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Hi all,
First I want to preface this post that this is by no means intended to create any type of brand bashing. That seems to happen a lot around here when comparing various brands

Until the last 1.5 years I played the same old Ovation Acoustic guitar for 18 years. I never really loved the sound, but it was a guitar and I owned it, so it worked. Unfortunately the guitar spent way too many years inside it's case... but I've been working hard at fixing that! When I started getting back into playing I decided to treat myself and "step-up"/ "upgrade" my guitar.

(I'm now reminded of the, are you worthy of your guitar thread recently, lol... I know I'm not and really didn't need an upgrade)

Since selling my Ovation I've really enjoyed owning may different guitars and really finding what I like and don't like in an acoustic. So far I've either owned or spend a lot of time with:

Baby Taylor
Taylor GS-Mini Mahogany
Taylor 314
Taylor 514
Taylor 816ce
Taylor 814ce
Taylor 814ce DLX*
Martin HD-28*
Martin OM-28VTS*
Gibson J-200 Rosewood
Gibson Dove

(* indicates what I currently still own)

So I've come to the conclusion that I LOVE the rosewood/spruce combination. I tend to lean towards the Martin sound (whatever that means) but after owning my third 8XX series Taylor (a long thread about a week ago) I've found a Taylor that is a keeper also.

So my question really is:

There are SO many guitar brands out there. There are SO many price-points out there. It's a blessing and a curse that you could own a quality guitar for $500 or $5,000! I feel like I have a good grasp on what Martin and Taylor have to offer and a fair grasp on the Gibson tone and offerings.

Then you get into these more boutique brands, Santa Cruz, Collings, Froggy Bottom, not to mention all the small luthier builds that I'm sure are amazing.

What's your guitar brand story? Did you "step-up" along the way? Does the quality/tone increase as you move of the brand chain? Is there even really a brand chain? How do you try all of these out to really find what you like? Where do you stop, lol?

My other hobby is collecting watches and it's easy to get caught up in the watch brand trap. Many people start out owning a lower priced watch (Tag, Omega). Get into the hobby and step-up to a mid-priced watch (Rolex, JLC,IWC) and then eventually "graduate" to one of the higher-end brands (Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe) only to come back down to somewhere in the middle and eventually be happy with that.

So after all that, I'm interested to hear how others have navigated the choppy seas of Guitar brands/builders and where that journey took them.

Josh

Watches? Mine include an IWC Da Vinci (ostrich strap, white leather presentation case, bought slightly used), and a vintage (pre-war) Breguet Ancre in 14K with solid strap lugs, dating it to the early years of the 20th century. Rolex is the BMW 3-Series of watches!
When it comes to guitars I've done the 'boutique' stuff, had custom builds, many Martins and Gibsons, a few Taylors which all went during a period of enforced poverty. Do I miss them? Not a bit of it, and my current small group provides all the musical satisfaction I need.
That said I was recently tempted by this: https://www.mansons.co.uk/product/pr...ylor-gs6-10127
Played it, discovered it was absolutely lifeless, GAS cured! Incidentally I quit visiting watch forums when the phrase 'tool watch' cropped up!