Picks - speed bevels and a discovery.

[Silly Moustache]

A while ago there were a couple of threads about speed bevels and I expounded that I wouldn't buy a pick that didn't have a speed bevel.

Of course I have done so in the past.

I only use large triangle picks, and have mostly settled on Blue Chip "TAD"s and Wegen TF styles. Both of which have speed bevels, and I used both as "guides". I also observed that the speed bevels on the Wegens are far more pronounced that the BCs.

Anyway I also have boxes of reject picks so I thought I'd conduct a little experiment - Using some D'andrea 1.5 m/m "pro-pics" one ancient Jim Dunlop "Tortex" 1.14 m/m an some Clayton 1.07 m/m (translucent yellowish picks.

I started by using sand blocks to make the first removal of material from them - and unsurprisingly - it cam off in varying amounts -depending, I suppose, on the hardness of the material. Then I cleaned up the edges using jeweller's rouge on an old lump of rough leather.

My attempts were not totally succesful, but I did manage to "clean up" the edges, and what I DID find - was that the finished edges - beveled well or not DID give the pick a superior tonal brilliance.

The best result was on the old purple JD, and the formerly very dull D'andrea Pro-plec.

So ......I decided that the easier way to achieved the polishing aspect was to use a felt polishing fitting on a Dremel again using some jeweler's rouge.

This was particularly effective on the Wegens.

BTW - I also discovered that bevels on BC picks vary quite a bit and are often quite minimal ...but still effective.

Thoughts ?

[HHP]

My experience is that 100% of the picks I've given the re-bevel treatment to improved. Some by a little and some by a lot, but they were all better.

Volume increases significantly. The overall tone shifts towards more articulation and clarity.

The manufacturers that do apply this type of bevel use a very conservative version where they sort of add a little ramp to the rounded over edge. It works, but can be better. Prime tones come like this with their "sculpted" edge. Recently got some of their 2.5 mm picks and they were pretty good as delivered but much better after extending the bevel all the way down.

It even works on picks that are almost round.

One tip, for smoothing the edge, get a 4 sided manicurist sponge to treat the edge after shaping. It will polish and buff the edge and make the polishing compound and a felt wheel the final step.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by HHP

My experience is that 100% of the picks I've given the re-bevel treatment to improved. Some by a little and some by a lot, but they were all better.

Volume increases significantly. The overall tone shifts towards more articulation and clarity.

The manufacturers that do apply this type of bevel use a very conservative version where they sort of add a little ramp to the rounded over edge. It works, but can be better. Prime tones come like this with their "sculpted" edge. Recently got some of their 2.5 mm picks and they were pretty good as delivered but much better after extending the bevel all the way down.

It even works on picks that are almost round.

One tip, for smoothing the edge, get a 4 sided manicurist sponge to treat the edge after shaping. It will polish and buff the edge and make the polishing compound and a felt wheel the final step.

Hi, glad I'm not the only one! I know exactly what you mean about the manicurist's sponges -and have some - but I do find them rather fragile, and the lump of old leather with Jeweller's rouge does the same thing just as well.

Best,
Andy

[rogthefrog]

Interesting. My experience has been the opposite, i.e. "speed bevels" make my tone mushy and undefined, and hamper precision. The picks I use all have a very slight and even eased edge all around except at the tip, which is pointy.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

Interesting. My experience has been the opposite, i.e. "speed bevels" make my tone mushy and undefined, and hamper precision. The picks I use all have a very slight and even eased edge all around except at the tip, which is pointy.

Rog, it's all over the map re bevels. I've been playing for forty years and can't hear or feel the difference, but this is probably because I'm not as good a player as other folks. Also, I'm not a true flatpicker, not a big Bluegrasser.

I have friends who are excellent players -- much better than me -- who swear by them, and I believe them.

At CLP, our research showed that players playing over 1.0 mm thickness (which, by the way, is a very small segment of the total pick market, 15% at most) prefer to do their own bevels. They rebevel bevels. So the average recreational player (which includes me), which is 80-85% of the market, ends up paying extra for a feature they don't want or can't use. Those are the real numbers. Also, the vast majority of the guitarists play below 1.0 mm thickness, all the way down to .40 mm.

That's my take,
Scott Memmer

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Rog, it's all over the map re bevels. I've been playing for forty years and can't hear or feel the difference, but this is probably because I'm not as good a player as other folks. Also, I'm not a true flatpicker, not a big Bluegrasser.

I have friends who are excellent players -- much better than me -- who swear by them, and I believe them.

At CLP, our research showed that players playing over 1.0 mm thickness (which, by the way, is a very small segment of the total pick market, 15% at most) prefer to do their own bevels. They rebevel bevels. So the average recreational player (which includes me), which is 80-85% of the market, ends up paying extra for a feature they don't want or can't use. Those are the real numbers. Also, the vast majority of the guitarists play below 1.0 mm thickness, all the way down to .40 mm.

That's my take,
Scott Memmer

Hmmm. People use .4mm and are happy while here I am using 4.0mm. Maybe I have insecurity issues I need to deal with.

[BrunoBlack]

I admire the work Scott has done developing his world class CL Picks. However, I wasn't thrilled with the 1.44 CL Red pick. I found it muddy and dull. Scott of course was willing to allow a return, but I decided to experiment with putting bevels on the corners modeled from my BC TAD picks. And I'm glad I did this. The beveled Red pick is crisp & rich sounding. The Red pick has gone from something I wouldn't use, to being a pick I will look for. Thanks Scott for the great service and I probably owe HHP a tip of the hat for chatting this topic up.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by HHP

Hmmm. People use .4mm and are happy while here I am using 4.0mm. Maybe I have insecurity issues I need to deal with.

No, not at all HHP, and I hope that didn't come across as a criticism, as it wasn't meant as such. It's just data we've collected. You and I have had so many great discussions through the years -- and a few wrangles -- and I deeply value your posts and opinions. Again, this is just hard data, and maybe no one cares about it but me, which is fine.

To give you and others props, most of the really great players I've met -- and I mean this generally in the Bluegrass/flatpicking era -- play 1.50-2.00 mm and on up from there. But you are part of a very select group of players, a tiny segment of the market. I bet you can really wail. That being said, there are millions of players who prefer picks with a lot of flex, well under 1.0 mm. That is the fattest part of the market. These millions of players have been completely ignored by every single premium pick vendor, except us. But this is to take nothing away from your experience or opinions; I enjoy the heck out of them. Customers are more important than vendors. And the fascinating thing is, the marketplace will ALWAYS tell you if you're right or wrong. It's merciless that way. If you missed the mark, it won't sell.

As I often tell people, we guessed right. But it was mostly dumb luck. I guess it's better to have dumb luck than no luck at all.

Wail On, HHP!

memmer

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

No, not at all HHP, and I hope that didn't come across as a criticism, as it wasn't meant as such. You and I have had so many great discussions through the years -- and a few wrangles -- and I deeply value your posts and opinions. I was just communicating hard data we'd gathered in our research.

To give you and others props, most of the really great players I've met -- and I mean this generally in the Bluegrass/flatpicking era -- play 1.50-2.00 mm and on up from there. You are part of a very select group of players who prefer the fatties, but I bet you can really wail. That being said, there are millions of players who prefer picks with a lot of flex, well under 1.0 mm. These millions of players have been virtually ignored by

Nothing like that, just kidding. Believe me, when I play with friends and they ask about the pick, I get a lot " you play with WHAT?" reactions. I let them try it and it moves to "say, this isn't bad at all" and usually ends up with "can you do one for me?"

Sort of like when Blue Chips first came out and people got a case of the vapors about the cost, then ended up happily forking over after they tried one.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by HHP

Nothing like that, just kidding. Believe me, when I play with friends and they ask about the pick, I get a lot " you play with WHAT?" reactions. I let them try it and it moves to "say, this isn't bad at all" and usually ends up with "can you do one for me?"

Sort of like when Blue Chips first came out and people got a case of the vapors about the cost, then ended up happily forking over after they tried one.

Thanks for the clarification, HHP. Just making sure we're still on the best of terms. We often can't see the smirk behind the post.

BTW, just curious: Are you pretty much a straight BG lead player, or what kind of tunes do you play?

Good to know you found something you like. Those are excellent picks, and one of the picks that led me to fall in love with that material as a player -- and still love it.

Thanks,
Scott

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Haasome

I admire the work Scott has done developing his world class CL Picks. However, I wasn't thrilled with the 1.44 CL Red pick. I found it muddy and dull. Scott of course was willing to allow a return, but I decided to experiment with putting bevels on the corners modeled from my BC TAD picks. And I'm glad I did this. The beveled Red pick is crisp & rich sounding. The Red pick has gone from something I wouldn't use, to being a pick I will look for. Thanks Scott for the great service and I probably owe HHP a tip of the hat for chatting this topic up.

Has, thanks.

The beveling is something I believe every serious player should learn how to do. It's not difficult and, as Hassome indicates here, can yield tremendous benefits for many players. At CLP we don't offer them because our research showed that the better the player the more likely he/she is to bevel their picks -- even if it already has a bevel from the factory.

Anyway, Has, glad that worked out for you. Play on.

scott

[pickitPaul]

I tried looking on YouTube for a video that explains how to do a bevel, but have had no luck finding one.

How does one do a bevel without destroying the pick? R.Hand bevel for me.
Any pictures or videos of process would help.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by pickitPaul

I tried looking on YouTube for a video that explains how to do a bevel, but have had no luck finding one.

How does one do a bevel without destroying the pick? R.Hand bevel for me.
Any pictures or videos of process would help.

Here's a thread I did on the subject couple years ago. Sans pictures thanks to Photobucket. If I get around to it, I'll re-attach the photos from another source. You can probably figure it out from the step by step.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=359386

[Mr. Jelly]

I like the bevels also. My favorite bevels are my organic bevels. Meaning the bevels that come from playing. I like the large three cornered picks and have taken to drilling holes in them like the Wegen picks. I have to say though I don't lose picks so they have years of life. I can't say I ever wore one out either. They just keep getting better. I ran into an old one today and thought to myself how it was a good pick.

I like the 1.0 Tortex picks. I have tried the thicker picks and they don't seem stiffer to me just thicker. But then I don't plat heavy strings.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

At CLP, our research showed that players playing over 1.0 mm thickness (which, by the way, is a very small segment of the total pick market, 15% at most) prefer to do their own bevels. They re-bevel bevels.

So the average recreational player (which includes me), which is 80-85% of the market, ends up paying extra for a feature they don't want or can't use. Those are the real numbers. Also, the vast majority of the guitarists play below 1.0 mm thickness, all the way down to .40 mm.

Scott Memmer

I find this research remarkable- not saying it is wrong of your client base - but I can't imagine it is true of the pick market for "boutique" or S2secialikspicks.

Frankly - there is no point having a bevel in a thin pick, and I'm not sure that you can do any amount of intricate picking with a thin (under 1 m/m) pick anyway - far more suited to strumming.

I see the main "specialist" pick products as both BC and Wegen.
The thinnest pick the BC offer (with one exception) and Wegen is a 40 - i.e. a 1m/m. Even the copicat Dunlop Primetones start at 1.4 or 1.5 m/m.

This tells me that there are two distinct parts of the market:

The "specialist" pickers whose most specialist picks are mostly over 1 m/m and will have bevels.

Then there is the larger less caring players who buy the 40 p (or 40 cent) those who buy teardrops with death's heads or other pointless slogans on them from in a guitar shop counter.

Two distinct markets.