Dont underestimate the metronome..

[wcap]

One thing that should be said here....

Though I (and I suspect many others) would benefit a LOT from greater use of a metronome, a lot of very expressive music actually speeds up and slows down on purpose. I sing in a choir, and for a while played percussion in a concert band, and in these contexts the music is speeding up and slowing down frequently.

Some really expressive fingerstyle and classical guitar pieces would fall into the category of music where tempo changes (sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle) can be an important part of the musical expression. Though I am by no means a master at controlling timing, in this context I find recording with a click track to be very difficult - often stifling the musicality of what I am playing. And in some of the music we play as a family we are intentionally slowing down or speeding up in places (e.g. my daughter slows down ends of some phrases or certain verses when singing certain pieces, and with some gypsy pieces we have been doing we do dramatic timing changes sometimes).

To be able to do these sorts of timing changes in a good controlled way though one must be able to keep perfect time when one needs to (and to avoid the unintentional speeding up that is often a problem for me), and that is where training with a metronome plays a big role.

Regarding avoiding unintentional speeding up..... here is a little self deprecating humor that is a little too close to home (I played 5-string banjo for many years).....

How do you know when a banjo player is at the door?
The knocking gets faster and faster, he can't find the key, and he doesn't know when to come in!

(I also posted this last night in a different thread)


Speeding up is a particular problem with banjo players I suspect..... some (but not all) pieces are supposed to be played fast, and one works so hard developing the ability to do that that sometimes one finds it difficult to play a piece any other way. If that speed that you have trained at while learning a piece is faster than the speed you are playing it with others it can be a big problem - you tend to want to speed it up to the pace you are accustomed to. Even just an hour or so of forcing ones self to play a piece like this slowly with a metronome can work wonders.

Interestingly, my family's push to have me slow things down with a metronome has backfired with some pieces, where I now naturally tend to want to play them slower and my family needs to speed me up!

[Lake Sagatagan]

Wcap,

For a year or so, I've been practicing scales, fifteen minutes a day, with a metronome. I think my command of rhythm and tempo are improving, but, strangely perhaps, also a sense of rubato, legato, sustain, and other tricks that seem the opposite of strict timing. In tai chi, teachers talk about not "breaking the silken thread," and a similar feeling is getting stronger in me. I believe my playing is becoming increasingly expressive and, well, smooth. Do you think the discipline metronomes instill goes beyond training everybody in the band to end at the same time?

[mc1]

you are making some good points, wcap.

[dangrunloh]

Originally Posted by Legolas1971

I do alot of recording and playing in time is crucial. The coolest
thing about playing to a click is that once you become
comfortable you can start playing a tad behind the beat. This
makes the track move nicely gives that in the pocket feel...

This comment reminds me of a chapter in Livingston Taylors book Stage Performance called It's about time. He says you capture the listener with your careful disciplined delivery of the tempo. They must trust you to deliver the beat at just the right time. They're waiting and listening for it but you are their guide and shall not deliver any beat before it's time.

Breaking time, irregular beat and tempo fluctuations can break the magic spell and you loose the listener, and his trust (according to Livingston)

--Dan

[muscmp]

how can you underestimate a click track/metronome? it's always there!

i use one of many drum patterns i have as a metronome/click track to increase my timing as well as to help me develop strumming patterns and cerebral lead licks.

play music!

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Lake Sagatagan

Wcap,

For a year or so, I've been practicing scales, fifteen minutes a day, with a metronome. I think my command of rhythm and tempo are improving, but, strangely perhaps, also a sense of rubato, legato, sustain, and other tricks that seem the opposite of strict timing. In tai chi, teachers talk about not "breaking the silken thread," and a similar feeling is getting stronger in me. I believe my playing is becoming increasingly expressive and, well, smooth. Do you think the discipline metronomes instill goes beyond training everybody in the band to end at the same time?

Absolutely.....

Originally Posted by wcap

.....

To be able to do these sorts of timing changes in a good controlled way though one must be able to keep perfect time when one needs to (and to avoid the unintentional speeding up that is often a problem for me), and that is where training with a metronome plays a big role......

Working with a metronome gives a person much more control of all aspects of timing (and of all aspects of playing) - useful for keeping time with others (or want to maintain an absolutely steady beat on your own), but also very useful if you want to deviate from strict timing for expressive purposes.


By the way, this whole conversation about timing reminds me of the story of how Earl Scruggs and his brother (I think) worked on timing when they were young. Apparently they would start out playing together and walk around the house in opposite directions while still playing, seeing if they could still be in time when they met up again on the other side of the house!




All this talk about metronomes is making me want to go find one of ours and start using it more.......

[clintj]

As my band's drummer, I try to hold steady time. With four other people playing, something needs to keep everyone together for coherence's sake. We do have a few that time speeds up on purpose to build tension but they are almost all ballad type tunes. Danceable songs I stay as close to dead on time as I can, people dancing like a constant strong beat. I had one song at a jazz open mic where the other musicians thanked me for sitting deep in the pocket and refusing to budge on tempo. We had a couple of other players on stage with poor timekeeping and the piece was on the verge of falling apart at any moment. Scary!

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Diamond Dave

This is why God invented drummers.

Wait, I thought the discussion was about not changing tempo...

[LeftArm]

I have started to use my metronome because I speed up as I play and my right hand gets tenser and tenser. I also if I make a make a slight slip up I tend to break the rhythm rather than recover gracefully. It helps me be more aware of both these issues.

[mymartind35]

Both of the really good drummers we worked with in the best band in which I've ever had the privelige to play, used metronomes. Our timing became so good that the pocket was there all the time. To "play in the pocket" is a gift. Richie Hayward of Little Feat was in the Drummer Hall of Fame (at least in my book) for building the perfect pocket. Awesome. Just listen to "Two Trains". Timing is everything in music.

[GibbyPrague]

A metronome is the single most important tool for a beginner ... and for many inermediate players.

I often go back and play pieces with a metronome and often Im suprised that I sometime go a bit faster or not totally in time .... my singer often reminds me and forces me back to the tick tack.

Its a good tune up.

[harmonics101]

As GibbyPrague says, and I agree, a metronome is an essential tool for the Beginner and Intermediate.

I got one years ago, and used it regularily.

Now, not so much.

I think of the metronome almost like training wheels. Once you really get the hang of riding that bike (guitar) you really don't need it that often afterwards.

True what GibbyPrague says though, I bet if I started using that metronome again, I would notice that my timing might have been off a tad.

Oh, and just to add.

None of those digital metronomes for me.

Has to be a natural wood metronome to really enjoy playing with the beat.

There is nothing worst than keeping pace with one of thse digital ones.

Harmonics101

[Toby Walker]

I still use a metronome... especially when I'm working on fiddle tunes that require a great deal of speed and clean playing.

I tell most of my students to do the same. I think using one is essential in building technique, speed and accuracy.

I once played with a drummer who we nicknamed 'Metro.' I swear he kept better time than a Swiss watch. We would often kid him about the real watch he carried on him... an antique pocket watch that... well... never kept the proper time.

You can't MAKE this stuff up.

[Shoreline Music]

When I was teaching a lot, I insisted my students use a metronome, but I was a total hypocrite--I never used one myself.

When I was rowing as an undergrad, I had good enough time that I could accurately tell the difference between 30 strokes/minute and 32 strokes/minute, so I figured I had good enough time when I started playing guitar for money. But the single best thing I ever did for my guitar playing was when I started work as a gigging bassist 15 years ago. Finding that pocket with my drummer song after song, week after week, gave me a much more mature and accurate sense of music time.

I've found this especially helpful when leading congregational singing. Worship drummers have come to expect that the songleader (usually a guitarist) will need to be reined in as they change tempo a dozen times each song. When I, as a guitarist, settle into a pocket with a surprised drummer, and the rest of the band doesn't have to worry about when to come in on their notes and such, they are freed up to do what they do best.

[trion12]

Originally Posted by mymartind35

To "play in the pocket" is a gift.

I would suggest rather than a gift, it is something you earn through hard work.

Aaron