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  #16  
Old 09-28-2010, 02:44 PM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
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I would say in itself no but in the way you play - yup. I tend to play harder with a guitar with a higher action which impacts the sound because I can flail away with less worry of buzzes and fretting out.

And while I can't prove it, I swear my guitars ring longer with a higher action than a low action
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2010, 03:00 PM
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String ramp... yep. What I know is that I've experienced a great increase in volume and responsiveness by raising the action, and in some cases, had a fuller tone. Lowering can help if you are having trouble fretting notes, which can enhance the player's ability to access the tonal characteristics of a guitar.

My philosophy is that the action should be as high as you can make it and still be comfortable playing - and that's very individual. And different makes of guitar make the available variation very, well, variable.
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  #18  
Old 09-28-2010, 03:48 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
The break angle over the saddle is not the main factor (a sufficient angle is enough and more than that does very little regarding tone). What is having the greater effect on tone is the increase or decrease of torque on the top which occurs with a higher or lower total string height.
Of course its the increase and decrease in torque on the top which changes the tone, and that increase or decrease in torque varies directly as a function of the breakover angle.

As you raise the saddle the breakover angle increases, as you lower the saddle the breakover angle decreases.

Or , the other way round, whichever way you choose to look at it.

QED.
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  #19  
Old 09-28-2010, 03:58 PM
darylcrisp darylcrisp is offline
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and, if the saddle is set in the bridge with no tilt(ex: Santa Cruz has a 10% saddle tilt), lowering or raising will indeed effect intonation-the physics being of either longer or shorter strings-intonation can be on or off within a hair distance.

The tilt of the Santa cruz saddle effectively eliminates any intonation changes if you remove material from the bottom of the saddle to lower action-a novel idea IMO.

daryl
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  #20  
Old 09-28-2010, 04:32 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darylcrisp View Post
and, if the saddle is set in the bridge with no tilt(ex: Santa Cruz has a 10% saddle tilt), lowering or raising will indeed effect intonation-the physics being of either longer or shorter strings-intonation can be on or off within a hair distance.

The tilt of the Santa cruz saddle effectively eliminates any intonation changes if you remove material from the bottom of the saddle to lower action-a novel idea IMO.

daryl
Uhhh, not , in fact , so.

In fact, the saddle tilt of the Santa Cruz actually exacerbates intonation changes when the saddle is lowered, as the distance from nut to saddle crown is decreased significantly compared to a vertically set saddle.
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  #21  
Old 09-28-2010, 04:48 PM
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While the scale length does change, I think the idea is that the scale length change offsets the string-stretch change as the action is altered. So, a higher action's contribution to sharpness from string stretching is offset by the scale length that's slightly shorter. I have no idea whether or not this works in practice, but I think that's the rationale.
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  #22  
Old 09-28-2010, 05:06 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devellis View Post
While the scale length does change, I think the idea is that the scale length change offsets the string-stretch change as the action is altered. So, a higher action's contribution to sharpness from string stretching is offset by the scale length that's slightly shorter. I have no idea whether or not this works in practice, but I think that's the rationale.
I get it, built in self adjusting compensation.

btw I think you meant to say "scale length that's slightly longer", Bob ??
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  #23  
Old 09-28-2010, 05:10 PM
darylcrisp darylcrisp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
Uhhh, not , in fact , so.

In fact, the saddle tilt of the Santa Cruz actually exacerbates intonation changes when the saddle is lowered, as the distance from nut to saddle crown is decreased significantly compared to a vertically set saddle.
you might want to ask Richard Hoover about your thoughts, he's the one who told me why he does the tilt-and it offers a twofold benefit-one being able to remove material from the bottom of the saddle and not effect intonation. Of course if you tilt the saddle the opposite direction of what Santa Cruz does it would then do what you said.

cheers
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2010, 01:27 AM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darylcrisp View Post
you might want to ask Richard Hoover about your thoughts, he's the one who told me why he does the tilt-and it offers a twofold benefit-one being able to remove material from the bottom of the saddle and not effect intonation. Of course if you tilt the saddle the opposite direction of what Santa Cruz does it would then do what you said.

cheers
daryl
I get the concept now, daryl, and I agree that the compensation is in fact automatically adjusted as the saddle is raised or lowered.

Ingenious lateral thinking by Richard Hoover.

Personally, I have always thought that saddles should be a lot thicker than they are, maybe 5 - 6mm, to allow for adjustment for perfect intonation, or at least as near perfect as the instrument allows.

I assume that aesthetic considerations, and increased costs of saddle material , are the only reasons why this isn't done.
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  #25  
Old 09-29-2010, 04:23 AM
Laurent Brondel Laurent Brondel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
I assume that aesthetic considerations, and increased costs of saddle material , are the only reasons why this isn't done.
Cattle bone is pretty inexpensive. It is not rocket science to get perfect intonation on a "regular" scale with a 3/32" saddle.
I use a 1/8" saddle because I think the increased width makes the saddle less inclined to bend or warp. And it looks better IMHO.
All that matters is correct position of the bridge slot compared to the scale used.
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  #26  
Old 09-29-2010, 10:23 AM
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DenverSteve DenverSteve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
Yes, and I find it to be more significant than subtle. Setup is very much a part of the tone of a guitar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLS View Post
Yep, I agree. What I find most often, is that when I setup an acoustic guitar for a customer, an they no longer have to fight it, tone improves dramatically.
X2. Yes it does.
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