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  #46  
Old 12-24-2017, 06:24 AM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Originally Posted by JSanta View Post
My last name is always fun this time of the year

I currently have a CU24 and a HBII. There's certainly a jump between them. I think they are a good comparison too because they both make their own electronics and tuners. The quality of the tuners on the PRS is better and are much smoother, the pickups from PRS are voiced fantastically (I find nearly everything from Carvin/Kiesel to be really sterile), and fretwork is better on PRS as well. Again, not a huge difference, but the quality of the components and the fretwork are better from PRS. I think Kiesel offers great value (even with the change in ownership and some of his rants and lack of customer care), but I would take a PRS any day. For me, they are worth the extra cost. I'd honestly put my two Carvin's/Kiesels as the same quality level as the PRS SE line, but I like their pickups better than what Carvin offers.
The PRS SE line has some very nice guitars. I'm looking forward to trying out a Carvin/Kiesel at some point but they're just not around anywhere near my location, which isn't surprising given they're direct order from the US.

I have a 1998 PRS CE-22 that I bought in Jan. Fit, finish, and playability are all outstanding (although I prefer 24 3/4" scale length). The Dragon II pickups are good but not great.
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  #47  
Old 12-24-2017, 07:09 AM
AcouStickistNS AcouStickistNS is offline
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Wow, this thread takes me back to 2002. Coming from a bass background, I wanted an electric guitar that I could fingerpick. Never used a pick very much on a bass, so fingerpicking was must for me. Did not own an acoustic either. The only two electrics that worked for me was a PRS Custom 24 and the headless Steinbergers. Both high end. Ended up buying the PRS. Still have it. Last year I had the frets leveled and re-crowned, there was still enough metal for the repairman who did it, no re-fretting required. He really appreciated working on it as they make some of the best guitars out there. No correcting of faulty workmanship, just wear and tear from me using it. He had some good stories to tell me about other popular brands with lousy designs or workmanship. So 15 years is pretty good, and still plenty of life left in those frets. Took me a good many years, but I'm finally using a pick too I know it's rather odd to buy a high end guitar as a first one, but it was only one of two I actually felt good playing. Turned out to be a worthwhile investment.
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  #48  
Old 12-24-2017, 12:14 PM
JSanta JSanta is offline
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Originally Posted by Dru Edwards View Post
The PRS SE line has some very nice guitars. I'm looking forward to trying out a Carvin/Kiesel at some point but they're just not around anywhere near my location, which isn't surprising given they're direct order from the US.

I have a 1998 PRS CE-22 that I bought in Jan. Fit, finish, and playability are all outstanding (although I prefer 24 3/4" scale length). The Dragon II pickups are good but not great.
If you're lucky, you may find a used one at Long and McQuade (not sure if there's a location by you). I wouldn't hesitate to purchase one, but I wouldn't waste your money on crazy woods or anything because you're not going to get a better guitar. My DC700 has a black limba body and a quilted top. That's about as crazy as I'd go before I'd look at other builders because I've seen some people go option heavy on woods and end up with something really pretty, but still having the same quality control and components as their base models.
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  #49  
Old 12-24-2017, 01:21 PM
Scotso Scotso is offline
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Yes. Another to try- someone mentioned G&L Tribute line. I would agree wholeheartedly. I have a Legacy tribute- cost me $250 used with a flame maple top and hog body. Made in Indonesia with US parts. They are sorta the opposite of PRS S2= US made body, Asian parts, This is a well made strat model that I like as much as my old American strat. Since Leo designed both the Fender and G&Ls they are close in specs, feel and sound. Actually I think the G&L sounds more like old strats than the new models do.
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  #50  
Old 12-24-2017, 05:24 PM
aknow aknow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcouStickistNS View Post
Wow, this thread takes me back to 2002. Coming from a bass background, I wanted an electric guitar that I could fingerpick. Never used a pick very much on a bass, so fingerpicking was must for me. Did not own an acoustic either. The only two electrics that worked for me was a PRS Custom 24 and the headless Steinbergers. Both high end. Ended up buying the PRS. Still have it. Last year I had the frets leveled and re-crowned, there was still enough metal for the repairman who did it, no re-fretting required. He really appreciated working on it as they make some of the best guitars out there. No correcting of faulty workmanship, just wear and tear from me using it. He had some good stories to tell me about other popular brands with lousy designs or workmanship. So 15 years is pretty good, and still plenty of life left in those frets. Took me a good many years, but I'm finally using a pick too I know it's rather odd to buy a high end guitar as a first one, but it was only one of two I actually felt good playing. Turned out to be a worthwhile investment.
I think it's one of the best things you can do, as long as you have a history of following through on your interests. I got my first PRS in 1997, (a new McCarty gold-top), after playing for about 30 years of Gibson/Fender. When I first plugged it in, my brains literally fell out as it was so much easier to play, move around, and get a great sound. Better instruments make better players, to a point, but definitely make the experience far better.
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  #51  
Old 12-24-2017, 05:30 PM
aknow aknow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSanta View Post
My last name is always fun this time of the year

I currently have a CU24 and a HBII. There's certainly a jump between them. I think they are a good comparison too because they both make their own electronics and tuners. The quality of the tuners on the PRS is better and are much smoother, the pickups from PRS are voiced fantastically (I find nearly everything from Carvin/Kiesel to be really sterile), and fretwork is better on PRS as well. Again, not a huge difference, but the quality of the components and the fretwork are better from PRS. I think Kiesel offers great value (even with the change in ownership and some of his rants and lack of customer care), but I would take a PRS any day. For me, they are worth the extra cost. I'd honestly put my two Carvin's/Kiesels as the same quality level as the PRS SE line, but I like their pickups better than what Carvin offers.
Well said: My first electric hollow body was a 1998 HB II, puts a smile on my face everytime I play it. I have a Gibson es 335 too, better sound than the HBII, but the HB II gets far more playing time.
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  #52  
Old 12-24-2017, 07:11 PM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Originally Posted by JSanta View Post
If you're lucky, you may find a used one at Long and McQuade (not sure if there's a location by you). I wouldn't hesitate to purchase one, but I wouldn't waste your money on crazy woods or anything because you're not going to get a better guitar. My DC700 has a black limba body and a quilted top. That's about as crazy as I'd go before I'd look at other builders because I've seen some people go option heavy on woods and end up with something really pretty, but still having the same quality control and components as their base models.
Yes, there's a L&M 3 minutes from my house. Great spot and great people who work there. I've never seen a Carvin there before though. I got a new Gibson SG Standard a couple of days ago so that's keeping me busy .
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  #53  
Old 12-25-2017, 05:52 AM
MBDiagMan MBDiagMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcouStickistNS View Post
Wow, this thread takes me back to 2002. Coming from a bass background, I wanted an electric guitar that I could fingerpick. Never used a pick very much on a bass, so fingerpicking was must for me. Did not own an acoustic either. The only two electrics that worked for me was a PRS Custom 24 and the headless Steinbergers. Both high end. Ended up buying the PRS. Still have it. Last year I had the frets leveled and re-crowned, there was still enough metal for the repairman who did it, no re-fretting required. He really appreciated working on it as they make some of the best guitars out there. No correcting of faulty workmanship, just wear and tear from me using it. He had some good stories to tell me about other popular brands with lousy designs or workmanship. So 15 years is pretty good, and still plenty of life left in those frets. Took me a good many years, but I'm finally using a pick too I know it's rather odd to buy a high end guitar as a first one, but it was only one of two I actually felt good playing. Turned out to be a worthwhile investment.
I donít think it is at all odd to start with a high end instrument if you have the means.

I grew up in a wonderful family, but we were of very limited means. I started playing the trumpet in the 7th grade with a horn that was so bad that the band director asked me if it actually played. I struggled with it all the way through my junior year and because of baseball was not in the band my senior year. I did pretty well in spite of a bad horn, but as a result learned how important a good, at least an acceptable, instrument can be.

Both my kids were absolutely gifted Musicianís and I had the means to provide them with very good starter instruments and by their third year they had absolutely the best instruments I could put in their hands because I knew how important it could be. My daughter sat at the top of all region band when she was in ninth grade. She is now 32. For Christmas I took her Clarinet and had it redone for her so she can start playing again. I will be giving it to her today.

There is probably no need to put a top instrument in the hands of a beginner, but there are advantages. It is CERTAINLY preferable to risking their efforts to a less than acceptable instrument that might frustrate them to a point that they walk away. The thought of having a great instrument from the get go might also be the right ingredient for some peopleís mindsets. Everyone is motivated and satisfied by different things.

If you have the means to start with a great instrument, go for it. If you donít have the means to have an expensive instrument, fashion a board on a cigar box and rig up some strings if you have to. Do your best with what you have to play and I will end this post with what I see in the signature of one of the prominent posters here which seems appropriate.....Play Music!
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  #54  
Old 12-25-2017, 06:45 AM
s2y s2y is offline
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LOL, sometimes I think starting on a junky guitar is a good thing in the sense it makes you have an appreciation for the good stuff.

If someone wants quality without breaking the bank, check on used stuff. I once got a nice USA made Kramer Pacer that was dead mint for under $500 in the early days of eBay. At the time, anything that was non-Fender and had a Floyd Rose trem was the antithesis of cool.
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  #55  
Old 12-25-2017, 06:49 AM
MBDiagMan MBDiagMan is offline
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Very good point! I had a high school teacher that called it ďbeating your head against the wall because it feels good when you quit.Ē

Starting on any instrument is a good thing just....

.....play music!😊🎸
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  #56  
Old 12-25-2017, 08:37 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
I don't play electric guitar. I do play acoustic and can appreciate the difference that a high end acoustic brings to the table, the voicing of the top for example.

What is the appeal of a high end electric guitar? Say a fender masterbuilt heavy relic Stratocaster vs the basic american made stratocaster that costs thousands of $ less? Would there be a noticable difference in tone? Aren't they just slabs of wood with electronics added? I know this is naive. Help me to understand.


What's to "understand" ( or perhaps more correctly what's not understand ) the same fundamentals apply for any "high end" equipment of any and all kinds. The age old adage ( "in general you get what you pay for" ) while it may vary in intensity and or ratio , does not magically change or go away within a particular category of equipment
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Last edited by KevWind; 12-25-2017 at 08:58 AM.
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  #57  
Old 12-25-2017, 09:22 AM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2y View Post
LOL, sometimes I think starting on a junky guitar is a good thing in the sense it makes you have an appreciation for the good stuff.

If someone wants quality without breaking the bank, check on used stuff. I once got a nice USA made Kramer Pacer that was dead mint for under $500 in the early days of eBay. At the time, anything that was non-Fender and had a Floyd Rose trem was the antithesis of cool.
I think it's a good idea because if the player decides they don't want to continue with their guitar endeavor then they haven't invested a lot of money in a guitar. I do think that the guitar has to be playable though. So much easier to find an inexpensive, playable guitar now than it was when I started playing.
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  #58  
Old 12-25-2017, 02:15 PM
wrathfuldeity wrathfuldeity is offline
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I'll admit...let a few really good ones slip through my hands...doh. But now firmly in the player category...a good utility tool is better than an showcase princess or a junker. Me thinks that various ledgends' gits were merely that...old road hogs that got the job done....and became fabled because of getting the job done. A git is just an instrument in the hands of an artist/craftsman...some times said artist thinks the instrument needs a wee bit of improvement.


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Last edited by wrathfuldeity; 12-25-2017 at 02:20 PM.
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  #59  
Old 12-25-2017, 02:49 PM
Mr Fingers Mr Fingers is offline
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Bob Womack nailed it. "Expensive" means many things when it comes to electric guitars. Often, tour money will go towards attributes that are musically inconsequential: fake aging, copying a famous player's guitar's cosmetics, incredible visual grain/figure, inlays... But that does not mean that all high-end electrics do not have important tonal and playability advantages (as some posters claim). From choice of pickup voicings to use of excellent and stable tonewoods, or a superior thin finish, you can buy more quality. But as with cars, sound systems, wine, etc., etc., you quickly get to a point where small improvements cost more and more and more. A $5K electric is not 5X better than a $1K. And since factories are now geared to do remarkable work at mass production levels and budget prices, it is increasingly true that while spending $$$$ will get you more/better, it's not that much more, and not that much better. With a little care, you can get a $300 electric that will play and sound fabulous. I have one. and I have a $5K electric, too!
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  #60  
Old 12-25-2017, 05:49 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
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There's also the fact that you are paying for higher labour costs of an American made instrument which may not always give you a better instrument.
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