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  #1  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:22 PM
Italuke Italuke is offline
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Default Sound: Epi Casino or 335/Dot?

I have a few hundred bucks and want to get a Casino or a cheap 335 style guitar.

Wondering, can I occasionally get the Casino (P90s) to sound warm, dark, and fat at all, leaning toward a jazz guitar sound? Or should I go with something that has humbuckers and try to get some single coil-ish twang or bite out of them?

Essentially, which pickups can more easily get in the neighborhood of the other? I know, I know, I'm asking what I shouldn't ask, but please play along...!
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:32 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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IME it's easier to "darken" the tone of a brighter-sounding pickup than to do the opposite - it's simply a matter of turning down the tone control and/or using the neck pickup on your guitar, rolling off the treble/presence on your amp, or some combination of both. That said, I'd go with the Casino (I'm a fan of P-90's and mini-humbuckers anyway) with a few qualifications:
  • The more recent Chinese-made Epiphone semi-hollow necks have a thick, cheeky hard-D profile quite unlike the fast-playing Gibson "Slim-Taper" they claim to emulate (you'll find this on both the Casino and 335 Dot, BTW) - take this into consideration if you're not buying hands-on from a brick-&-mortar store
  • The bridge pickup can sound a bit subdued compared to the neck - you'll most likely want to install a shim (available through several of the parts houses) underneath the housing to balance the output
  • Fretwork can be, speaking in the kindest terms possible, somewhat inconsistent - plan on the very real possibility of a pro fret dress/leveling (and/or a new nut as well) in addition to the usual setup job
Don't know what tech work costs around your neck of the woods, but for the extra money you'll likely be spending over and above your initial purchase price I'd sooner be looking at a Korean-made Gretsch Electromatic 5420/5422 (not to be confused with the Chinese/Indonesian entry-level 2500 Series); IME the best QC you're going to find under $1K (well under in this case) - you can, quite literally, gig one of these right out of the box - and the "Great Gretsch Sound" sits right in between that of a single-coil and a humbucker so it should be right up your alley...

Hope this helps...
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:50 PM
blue blue is offline
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P90s have no trouble sounding fat. The biggest complaint is that they are noisy. And frankly that of some of the boutique ones are too polite and aren't p90s at all.

Here's a fun clip. 4 different pickups including a p90 (technically a duncan Prail). He doesn't tell you which is which until the end. I feel it proves it just doesn't matter. They are all wonderful sounds to my ear.

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Old 12-14-2016, 02:53 AM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Italuke View Post

Wondering, can I occasionally get the Casino (P90s) to sound warm, dark, and fat at all, leaning toward a jazz guitar sound?
It may depend on the individual type of P90s. As mentioned, some of the P90s available today seem a bit polite for rock but might be very suitable for jazz.

Way back in the day, I had a 1957 Les Paul Special (sadly, stolen from me many years ago) that had classic, badass P90 tones for rock & blues, but all I had to do was roll back the tone and volume on the guitar and/or turn off the distortion pedal to get a big, warm, jazzy tone, without going all flabby and thin sounding. It could play right along with the big jazz boxes and sound very much like them. In fact, the bass player in a band I was in had a '56 ES-295 with dog-ear P90s and with your eyes shut, it was hard to tell which of those 2 guitars was playing, unless it was really loud stuff. They're pretty noisy, but simply using both pickups at once tamed things enough to make it tolerable.

If there's a caveat, it's that I was using heavier strings than what I now use on electric...Gibson Sonomatic strings (no longer made unless they call them something else now) the gauges of which were almost like an acoustic light set, in nickel with a wound 3rd.

I don't know what the magic was, but I've never heard anything quite like those '57 pups...they could sound equally good in front of a blues-classic rock outfit or a full jazz ensemble. Most of the time I was playing through an Ampeg VT-22 combo, which was pretty much clean headroom all the way to '10', and a very warm sounding amp in its own right, but it really didn't seem to matter what amp I was using...I could still get a buttery jazz tone when called for; think George Benson's 'Aspiration'.

I think that, if I were to pursue an upgrade to a Casino, I would look first at Lollars, possibly Fralins...try to do some comparisons and even talk to the actual guys that make them.

One thing that occurs to me about P90s, at least from the rock perspective, is that on a Casino or similar guitar lacking a center-block, you might have problems getting them loud enough to really experience the P-90 snarky growl without them feeding back a lot...not a problem at more polite volume though.
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Old 12-14-2016, 07:50 AM
Italuke Italuke is offline
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Guys this is awesome, exactly what I was needing. Great answers to my question then adding a bunch of stuff I didn't know to ask!

Two things though: 1) I also play in a Beatles trib, so that leans in the Casino direction, and 2) as for $$/other types of (better) guitars, I only have about $400 tops for this one. It's kind of a "cheap guitar I really don't need" thing.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:37 AM
blue blue is offline
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I'd guess you can't beat the Casino for your need for $400, and the look would be perfect for your beatles gig.

But then again the only people who will care about the fact that you are using a 335 will be some other guitarists. The audience won't care. So I would try to play some of those, some of the cheaper doublecut gretsch guitars, and maybe an Epiphone 339, which comes with humbuckers or p-90s these days, and maybe get the one you love most. As long as it has that thinline double cut look, the audience won't care.

I say this coming from a Surf band background. I've had people walk out after telling me I wasn't using authentic gear I never responded, but I always wanted to say something along the lines of "you don't have an authentic ear, cuz my tone is da bomb..."

But those guys had to have been armchair guitar experts.
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Old 12-14-2016, 10:44 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is online now
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...i picked up an Epi 335 Pro in a trade last year...it has split coil Humbuckers so you can get a pretty darn good single coil tome out of it...but for warm fat jazz tone i prefer the untapped humbucker tone i get from it...still. its a very nice to thin out the tone when you want to....all in all an amazingly good guitar for the money....
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Old 12-14-2016, 05:35 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Italuke View Post
...Two things though: 1) I also play in a Beatles trib, so that leans in the Casino direction, and 2) as for $$/other types of (better) guitars, I only have about $400 tops for this one. It's kind of a "cheap guitar I really don't need" thing.
Two things:
  1. If you play in a Beatles tribute band someone needs a Gretsch - guess who/what prompted me to buy my Double Annie back in 1964 - and who deserves it more than you ;
  2. Wait a while and save up some extra bucks, look around for promo/coupon sales at the big-box stores (GC had a 20% off offer within the last couple weeks), see if there's some stuff you haven't used in a while that you can unload to help finance your purchase - and step up from "a cheap guitar I really don't need" to "a not-quite-as-cheap guitar that plays/sounds like a $3K+ guitar, that I'm really going to use" ;
- and if you don't absolutely need a hollowbody, one of these will give you a whole bunch of George Harrison/'63 Cavern Club vibe at a price within reach:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/G5435TBK
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Old 12-19-2016, 10:26 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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I wanted that kind of sound for the Beatles tribute band I wa sin, went for a semi-hollow body, Epi Dot Studio, found one one used for $160, and the frets were good on it (as others have mentioned, Epi's can be a bit hit or miss).

The lead guitarist in the band had one of these: http://www.guitarfetish.com/XV-900-S...ats_c_154.html (yes, $279 new) that sounded fantastic - I didn't realize it was a Xavier until I took a close look at the headstock.
They also have a full hollow body for $379: http://www.guitarfetish.com/Xaviere-...tar_c_534.html
They often have 'blem' models available on clearance, too.
Note, you'll probably need to do a simple set up on one of these when you receive it, but should not need a fret dressing.
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2016, 10:20 PM
Italuke Italuke is offline
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Thanks for the great input gang. After some serious soul searching, I scored one of these:

http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Arc...S-335-PRO.aspx

And man...I am happy as a clam! On sale at GC for $379, it really does feel and play very much like its $3K relative. AMAZING guitar for the money. And since my only other electric is a Strat, I really wanted the humbuckers. I occasionally sink deep into stuff like Clapton on cuts from From the Cradle, fingerstyle on a Gibson. This thing comes REALLY close.

And all I have to do to look 100% right for the Beatles gig is change out the pickguard for a white one...or lose it all together as they did on the 66 tour I believe...

Thanks again, Jim
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  #11  
Old 12-23-2016, 07:20 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is online now
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...congrats Jim....the 335 pro really is pretty darn impressive....i've owned 3 Gibson 335's in the past and the Epi model is no slouch in comparison....play it in good health my man....
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