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#16
10-19-2013, 08:20 PM
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#17
10-20-2013, 02:53 AM
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Having worked as, with and around painters and floor polishers for over 30 years I can tell you that adding color to a clear coat is referred to as tinting. Be it a first coat or over a (usually)clear base coat/coats and regardless of it's description on the can. That is tinting. What is and should be referred to as staining is applying a stain (a color) to a substraight, usually (nearly always) directly to the timber (though depending on the product and the complete system your using it does not have to be). And usually (nearly always and generally for good reason) the excess is wiped off. Direct staining generally requires a higher level of surface preparation as the stain will well in any scratches or other imperfections. Using tint coats will by its nature tend to conceal the natural look of the timber (just as a satin coat will) than direct staining of the surface unless your tinting the first coat, which will then act as a weaker stain that provides some kind of build. I would however think that direct staining of the timber for a sunburst would be a very hard thing to get a nice transition happening. Though you could probably start with a tinted coat if surface prep was very good but I would think having a clear coat on first would make things easier and more consistent. Including for the wipe off approach that was mentioned in an earlier post.
Of coarse if you were spraying that might change some of what I have said.
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The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. Last edited by jeff crisp; 10-20-2013 at 03:41 AM. Reason: Spelling and yes it's probably still not right.
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#19
10-20-2013, 06:22 AM
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Yes a pigmented stain will lack the clarity of a dye based stain. But they are both stains and can both be used to make a tint coat (if they're compatible with the coating of your choice).
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The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
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#20
10-20-2013, 08:37 AM
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Sure, they are both "stains" as are coffee and mud.
Point being, folks might get the idea that they can use the off the shelf "stain" that's pigmented. That's why I prefer to refer to them as dye. If you want to be PC, they are dye stains, or just dye. I would not use a pigmented stain for a tint coat on an instrument, that will just make things progressively more muddy by coat. Also stay away from aniline dyes...they fade in sunlight. 
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#21
10-20-2013, 05:49 PM
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If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
Often, in fact more often than not the word stain will appear front and centre on a label. Where as the word dye will often be found in small print on the back. If people recieved and except misinformation like "avoid stain" do you think at that point most of them will bother reading the fine print on the back. It has absolutely nothing to do with being P.C. Just because it's clear and shiny doesn't mean it's lacquer, even if some people think they can use the word generically. And insisting to a sales person that it must be lacquer when all you want is shiny will (severely) limit your options. I can understand why this information is not important to you. Looking at your work (in photo's) it would appear to be first class/top shelf and as long as your processes are workable (and I'm sure they are) it doesn't really matter what you want to label something in the privacy of your own shop. However as I'm sure you and anybody involved with building will know, a little bit of information can be a dangerous thing. If I was a miner I think I'd want to know that all that glitters is not gold. P.C...I don't think so.
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The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
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#22
10-20-2013, 06:19 PM
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Wade, if your wanting to apply what ever process you choose by hand I can only assume you are not spraying the finish/top coats on. If this is so and you have decided to apply an unadulterated stain (i.e. not a tint coat) then something you would normally (but not always) need to be concerned about is shifting. Not really a problem spraying over it but a brush or wiped on finish will often shift a stain (including a dye stain) if the solvent carriers are the same or similar. However whatever products you choose, obviously they must be compatable. That unfortunately can mean that they do or don't wash up with the same solvent. In other words theres more to compatibility than may first come to mind.
P.S. it's possible that shifting could even be used to your advantage. As mentioned earlier samples are a good place to start.
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The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. Last edited by jeff crisp; 10-20-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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#23
10-21-2013, 06:12 AM
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Were you to inquire, you would find most all builders use dye on their instruments, not stain. Don't know how shiny got into this conversation, for that matter, quacking ducks, miners or glitter. None of them have anything to do with sunbursts. Moreover, I really don't need to be criticized for trying to help someone out. Done with this one too...
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#24
10-21-2013, 08:19 AM
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I have not tried to make this a competition about the wealth of ones knowledge base. Only to point out one simple unavoidable fact. However since you have, I will say that I have hand stained (which incidentally is part of to OPs question) more in one day (let alone decades) than most if not all builders have in a life time. Whats more I have been considered to be at the top of my game in a state with 4 million people. By peers, past and present presidents of the association that you had to join if you want to be taken seriously and by a number of the richest people in the country. While I have never professed to being the most technically minded person around but I can tell you, and not without authority that I know a thing or 2 about the subject we are disputing. I have use hundreds of litres of stain, both pigmented and dye, many different brands and had to speak to a number of chemists. Quote:
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I don't really care if you wish to just call it dye, it is dye but I do care if somebody tells someone to "avoid stain", when a dye based stain is the same thing in this instance. Whats more, outside of you limited scope in this instance, the word stain is more commonly used to headline products of this nature. Instrument building is such a tiny little part of the coating world. Quote:
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Moreover, I really don't appreciate being criticized for trying to help someone out.
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The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. Last edited by jeff crisp; 10-21-2013 at 08:47 AM.
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#26
10-21-2013, 08:54 AM
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The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. Last edited by jeff crisp; 10-21-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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#27
10-21-2013, 10:34 AM
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#29
10-21-2013, 02:42 PM
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