Custom or factory build for flatpicking,strumming, singer/songwriter type guitar?

[racman]

So I got into a discussion the other day with a friend who is considering purchasing a factory built guitar (around $5k)worth for flatpicking, strumming, singer/songwriter type playing. He plays solo and sometimes duo or trio acoustic type gigs. Of course the guitar he is aiming for is the stereo-typical dreadnought (typical over here that is).

From my limited experience it appears that most builds in this section are more fingerstyle focused and I was wondering if a custom build for his purpose brings significant benefits over the famous (and sometimes infamous) mass produced guitars. Also what type of guitar/ model would you suggest for his purpose? I have offered to assist him in the process if he decides to go with a custom build but really want to assist him in purchasing the best guitar for his purpose.

Any suggestions, info, advice etc on guitar type, wood combos, builders etc would be welcome (Pm's are also welcome).

[Ken Franklin]

I make a lot of guitars for players with that style of attack though they're certainly not the only guitars I make. I think the advantages of a custom guitar for those players are much like the advantages for fingerstyle players. The builder often knows the guitar better than a factory worker who only deals with limited part of the guitar construction. Woods are individually selected for a specific purpose. Tops are tuned throughout the process. The guitars are often more unique and responsive without sacrificing the headroom that strummers need. With so many builders it's easy to find a custom guitar in that price range. I make a small jumbo that fills the singer/songwriter bill quite nicely. The one advantage that factory guitars might have is that there are so many of them to choose from. I tell players who want a factory guitar to try out as many as they can before they buy and then they are likely to find something that works for their needs, though it might not inspire them.

[racman]

Thanks Ken. With very limited selection of factory guitars in that price range (and extremely limited custom build selection) it is a bit of an exercise in faith in builder or manufacturer I suppose (although I have been ecstatic with all of my builds). On a seemingly positive side, the limited demand coupled means very high mark-ups by the odd dealer who will stock one, at most two, guitars in the ballpark price range and this in turn makes a custom build a very viable alternative.

[wcap]

Some dreadnaughts actually are wonderful for this sort of thing (and for fingerstyle too). The Podium (in Minneapolis, Minnesota) commissioned some custom Martin D28 guitars a few years back that they called the Singer-Songwriter 50th Anniversary (of their store) model (Engelmann/rosewood). They were some of the best guitars I have ever played (for ANY style of playing, including fingerstyle, flatpicking, strumming). I don't know whether Martin would replicate one of these for your friend, but he'd have a guitar that was good for everything with one of these.

A close second, in my opinion, would some of the Santa Cruz dreadnaughts. Other folks would probably sing the praises of Collings, or Huss and Dalton, etc, etc.

And then there are lots of other smaller builder guitars, small jumbos (as already mentioned), and other sizes/styles (including dreadnaughts or guitars similar to dreadnaughts) - e.g. Goodalls, Froggy Bottoms, etc, etc, etc. Some of these are going to be simply fabulous guitars (though not necessarily better than that fabulous Martin I mentioned!...yes, those Singer-Songwriter Martins were that good).

Incidentally, do you get Eastman guitars in South Africa? I have played some Eastmans that really impressed me. Spending 5K might not really be necessary.

[SJ VanSandt]

Marc Maingard is a reputable builder right there in South Africa. If you are going to go custom that would be a good place to start looking.

I play 80% strumming/flatpicking, and my experience with custom/small shop builders is that you can, in fact, buy a better instrument than a top of the line Martin or Gibson, but you really need to do your research and play lots and lots of instruments. And that might be the rub over there. If you (or your friend) can't get hold of a Bourgeois, Collings, Santa Cruz, Froggy Bottom, etc. to try out, you might still find them a better risk than a large factory guitar - more consistent. Still, I think the best strategy is to play as many guitars as possible. If that limits you to Martin, Gibson, Taylor or whatever is around (I don't know the comparable European brands), I'm sure you can get a fine guitar for 5K. Many custom builders are higher than that nowadays.

It seems like there are some other South Africans on AGF - maybe some with custom guitars would let your friend come try them out.

[racman]

Thank you for the great advice.

As you can see from my signature, he can try a few of mine as well but none are within his price range

I will be assisting him in purchasing from North America, whether factory or custom for various reasons.

[cpabolting]

For a dread, and in that budget range, there are quite a few luthiers that could make you a killer instrument. I have lots of great, special, and limited edition Martins and none of those Martins can touch a great handbuilt.

[Tim McKnight]

Hi Roy,

I think the biggest advantage of going custom is that the guitar would be built specifically to be ultra responsive for that unique individual. He may very well find what he / she is looking for off the rack but going custom the guitar can be ... well ... customized for aesthetics, ergonomics, form and function for them.

[racman]

Thanks Tim (and others). I guess I have always thought that all the benefits of a custom build would be more evident in finger style type players or guitars and less so in this specific application.

[SJ VanSandt]

What are you saying, Racman - that we singing-strummer types lack subtlety?

Actually, you may be right. Many great singer/guitarists seem to find production guitars from various companies perfectly adequate for their purposes. Let him play your guitars, even if they are out of his price range. If he says, "wow those sound so beautiful, I have to go the custom route," then go for it. Personally, as a decent singer but merely adequate guitarist, I'm inspired by the beautiful tone of my custom shop guitar, but I think comfort and familiarity are more important to me, and if the fit was right I could be reasonably happy with an old J-45. (The right J-45: I've played some recent ones that were just dogs.)

That said, I'll put in a shameless plug for the luthier who is currently building me the perfect flatpicking machine (I hope), John Allison. He can build your friend anything from a parlor to a jumbo for less than 5K, and I've compared his guitars A/B to Collings, Froggy, Santa Cruz, Martin, H&D and others (to only name similar style guitars) and he comes out on top every time. I've also compared his work to more expensive finger style guitars that cost considerably more and, well, it's apples and oranges, isn't it? I'm sure many of the fine luthiers on this forum, even those that say they specialize in finger style instruments, could build him a great singer-strummer ax. Good luck with the search!

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by racman

Thanks Tim (and others). I guess I have always thought that all the benefits of a custom build would be more evident in finger style type players or guitars and less so in this specific application.

Imagine if you put a cedar topped dread in the hands of a heavy handed player who uses a 50 cent piece for a pick doing his best interpretation of Keith Richards windmills ... or an Adi topped dread in the hands of a player who very gently uses a .010" thick pick?

[iim7V7IM7]

Just because one plays with a plectrum doesn't mean that the subtleties of a custom built instrument with get lost on them. Pick control particularly when playing with an electric guitar with a tube amp set on edge to bloom into overdrive with a hard pick attack or backing off to play cleanly requires control. I control my pick attack and angle on acoustic the same way.

My $.02

[Badcrumble]

It's worth noting that Casimi makes a jumbo that retails at 5000USD, and that their base models include arm and rib bevels. Not sure at what price point Maingards start.

You can get a lot of guitar for that price, both custom and factory built. If it were me, I'd look at Custom first.

Stellenbosch guitar company have also made a jumbo, so there are quite a few local avenues to pursue here, as well as international ones.

[racman]

Thanks for the advise - much appreciated.

I am aware of most custom builders in South Africa (and have been in contact with most over the years) but as mentioned in a prior post, whether it is a custom or factory build, I will be suggesting a North American purchase for various reasons.

[AcousticMoose]

For 5k I wouldn't even consider factory!