Excels at? Collings vs H&D vs Goodall vs Santa Cruz vs Bourgeois

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by Dolphin Siren

Unfortunate to read such crassness from a pastor.

Nothing crass about it. My opinion is at least as valid as yours. You'll notice from my first sentence that I expected responses like yours.

[Dolphin Siren]

Originally Posted by pjroberts

The first bit is funny, but the Martin GA is a surprise to me, though I'm mostly familiar with their traditional shapes and their J (40 specifically, which is similar to a GA). What is this super popular GA copy?

Their GP shape (Grand Performance), which to avoid the appearance of looking like Taylor, they stick a number between their "CE", so people like OneManz can review them and say Taylor invented what? Martin's GP is based on "small jumbos" models! They were invented "elsewhere" in "recent decades"! "The two do not sound similar at all!" (It's very difficult for Martin fanboys to just simply admit Martin copied the shape from Taylor.)

[noledog]

Well James Goodall knocked it out of the park for me with what I think is a perfect shape sonically & visually > Concert Jumbo!

[WindChaser]

Originally Posted by noledog

Well James Goodall knocked it out of the park for me with what I think is a perfect shape sonically & visually > Concert Jumbo!

Hi Noledog, I've notched that when people have Goodalls, it's most likely a concert jumbo (from my limited observation on this forum). Is a concert jumbo similar to a GA body where it is like a Swiss Army knife? What types of styles are best suited for concert jumbos made by Goodall?

[J Patrick]

...there are so many different models produced by each of the builders listed that i would find it very difficult to point out what model or particular quality each company excels at...they're all good and have way more similarities than differences....

[M Sarad]

I have owned five different SCGC guitars. Still have the first: 1981 Dread Cutaway of Brazilian/ Sitka. I tried to buy a Bourgeois Soloist Brazilian/German Spruce but it got away. Ditto for a Goodall Slothead OOO of Cocobolo and Adirondack Spruce.

My buddy, Howard in Brooklyn, has an H & D dread that is probably the most impressive modern version I have ever played.

The best Collings was a Mahogany / Sitka 12 fret I played at Schoenberg's a while back. Talk about a cannon!

So, play them all and decide which is your favorite and fits in your budget.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Cool thread Aaron. Though I am far from an expert when it comes to any of these builders, I'll play "word association" and tell you what pops in my head when I hear the builders' names:

• Collings - Spruce over Mahogany square shoulder Dread
• H&D - Spruce over Rosewood square shoulder Dread
• Goodall - Exotic wood guitars with cutaways
• Santa Cruz - 12 fret 00
• Bourgeois - Slope shoulder Dread

[noledog]

Originally Posted by WindChaser

Hi Noledog, I've notched that when people have Goodalls, it's most likely a concert jumbo (from my limited observation on this forum). Is a concert jumbo similar to a GA body where it is like a Swiss Army knife? What types of styles are best suited for concert jumbos made by Goodall?

Yo Windchaser, howzit goin'? ...so like when I decided on a custom build with Goodall I tried the Grand Concert in EIR and tho lovely, it did not have quite the oomph that the CJ has. It has a low end on par with a dread and a midrange/treble in the sweet range of an OM. In fact it's jus' a bit larger than an OM.

I play for a living and gig with an OM, the CJ and a dread, and tho all get the job done nicely, the CJ really covers it all with greatest balance. My set list covers stuff from Bob Marley to Bob Seger to Bad Company which includes a variety of attack from flesh finger style to heavy strum & flat pickin', so I think James' CJ design offers the shape a lot of folks here ask for when they say they want low end like a dread & the sweetness of an OM in a body that is comfortable to play. I always gig standing, but the CJ is equally comfy on the couch. Talking to James a few weeks ago, he said he really likes the CJ and does well with it...Swiss Army knife? very much so!!!

Here's two recent clips; one unplugged & the second plugged in jus' recorded with a camera nuthin' fancy.

[WindChaser]

Originally Posted by noledog

Yo Windchaser, howzit goin'? ...so like when I decided on a custom build with Goodall I tried the Grand Concert in EIR and tho lovely, it did not have quite the oomph that the CJ has. It has a low end on par with a dread and a midrange/treble in the sweet range of an OM. In fact it's jus' a bit larger than an OM.

I play for a living and gig with an OM, the CJ and a dread, and tho all get the job done nicely, the CJ really covers it all with greatest balance. My set list covers stuff from Bob Marley to Bob Seger to Bad Company which includes a variety of attack from flesh finger style to heavy strum & flat pickin', so I think James' CJ design offers the shape a lot of folks here ask for when they say they want low end like a dread & the sweetness of an OM in a body that is comfortable to play. I always gig standing, but the CJ is equally comfy on the couch. Talking to James a few weeks ago, he said he really likes the CJ and does well with it...Swiss Army knife? very much so!!!

Here's two recent clips; one unplugged & the second plugged in jus' recorded with a camera nuthin' fancy.

Hi Noledog, thanks for the awesome info and great playing and singing! I can see from the video that your CJ rings out quite a bit and has a very pleasant woody tone to it. One guitar having the bass of a dread and the high end of an OM sounds... Awesome to say the least =] I can't wait to try one of these. I realized that Willcutt guitars (the place I'm planning to visit) does not carry Goodalls. I may have to head up to Chicago instead. I was originally most interested in a either a 000 or dreadnought Collings, but now I'm open to trying all the brands I listed. The biggest problem and pain is that I live in Indianapolis, and this state has ZERO dealers for any of the brands I listed. Can you believe that? I'm tempted to quite my job and open a guitar store here that carries all those brands... No, not really, but I wish.

I definitely want to try a Goodall CJ, Santa Cruz 00/OM, Collings 000/D2HA/D2HG, and I have no idea what to try for Bourgeois and H&D; I guess whatever I find appealing.

[DenverSteve]

Noledog, Thanks for sharing. I love it when people play it like they mean it. Great job.

[noledog]

Originally Posted by WindChaser

Hi Noledog, thanks for the awesome info and great playing and singing! I can see from the video that your CJ rings out quite a bit and has a very pleasant woody tone to it. One guitar having the bass of a dread and the high end of an OM sounds... Awesome to say the least =] I can't wait to try one of these. I realized that Willcutt guitars (the place I'm planning to visit) does not carry Goodalls. I may have to head up to Chicago instead. I was originally most interested in a either a 000 or dreadnought Collings, but now I'm open to trying all the brands I listed. The biggest problem and pain is that I live in Indianapolis, and this state has ZERO dealers for any of the brands I listed. Can you believe that? I'm tempted to quite my job and open a guitar store here that carries all those brands... No, not really, but I wish.

I definitely want to try a Goodall CJ, Santa Cruz 00/OM, Collings 000/D2HA/D2HG, and I have no idea what to try for Bourgeois and H&D; I guess whatever I find appealing.

Thank you WindChaser for your kind words! I do hope you get a chance to play a Goodall, especially a CJ. Don't feel left out tho cuz here in N.E. Fl we have a very dim selection too with the exception of a dealer in St. Augustine who had a great selection of Lowdens and Santa Cruz, but he has since closed & moved back to Germany.
It was there that I played some very nice SC OM's and I have to say the OM/PW's that I demo'd many times were lovely and quite versatile, however, they still did not have that oomph I described earlier...I bought two Lowdens from him tho which I sold one and gave the other to my son. After this I settled on Goodall.

I have played a few Bourgeois and the OM was outstanding with a very nice low end thump and rounded trebles. I have zero experience with Collings and H&D. The H&D OM's I've heard friends play were very phat and warm sounding.

Best wishes in your adventure, it's a fun journey ain't it? Please keep us posted on your findings and I hope beautiful wood & steel finds your hands!

eric

Originally Posted by PastorSteve

Noledog, Thanks for sharing. I love it when people play it like they mean it. Great job.

Thank you Pastor for your kind and encouraging comments they mean a lot!

eric

[$ongWriter]

Originally Posted by PastorSteve

I'll be the lightening rod. Martin is known for pretty much creating most of the current popular body shapes and styles (that Taylor didn't). The other's you mentioned are known for copying Martin.

Copy...yes and no...they did copy the basic designs...but in many cases...they expanded on them. Don't get me wrong I love my Martin...but Collings for my ear is where it's at these days...the dreds are loud and proud and the OM's are loud and sweet...just what I hear..I really think it does matter what you yourself can hear. I've decided that every guitar does not sound the same to every person..due to the aging process and how our ears age. Just a thought!!..you really can't go wrong with any of these brands...or Martin...they all make "some" great guitars, a lot of really really really good guitars, and a few...duds...at the moment I'm aching for a Collings OM2H (with hide glued adi braces and sitka top)..played one at Cotton last week that was sold and to my ear it MAY BE the perfect guitar!!

[Neilson]

Originally Posted by PastorSteve

The other's you mentioned are known for copying Martin.

I have played all in the list except Bourgeois, Huss and Dalton still best sounding among all (for dreadnaught comparison only).
Not sure if it copied martin, but it definitely beat martin sound at same price range. Clean, warm yet not boomy. Try it for yourself.

[WindChaser]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

Cool thread Aaron. Though I am far from an expert when it comes to any of these builders, I'll play "word association" and tell you what pops in my head when I hear the builders' names:

• Collings - Spruce over Mahogany square shoulder Dread
• H&D - Spruce over Rosewood square shoulder Dread
• Goodall - Exotic wood guitars with cutaways
• Santa Cruz - 12 fret 00
• Bourgeois - Slope shoulder Dread

Thanks Ed for your thoughts. These are the kind of opinions I was looking for. This does seem like Bourgeois is most known for their dreads and Santa Cruz for their smaller bodied guitars.

[WindChaser]

[QUOTE=noledog;4810643]Thank you WindChaser for your kind words! I do hope you get a chance to play a Goodall, especially a CJ. Don't feel left out tho cuz here in N.E. Fl we have a very dim selection too with the exception of a dealer in St. Augustine who had a great selection of Lowdens and Santa Cruz, but he has since closed & moved back to Germany.
It was there that I played some very nice SC OM's and I have to say the OM/PW's that I demo'd many times were lovely and quite versatile, however, they still did not have that oomph I described earlier...I bought two Lowdens from him tho which I sold one and gave the other to my son. After this I settled on Goodall.

I have played a few Bourgeois and the OM was outstanding with a very nice low end thump and rounded trebles. I have zero experience with Collings and H&D. The H&D OM's I've heard friends play were very phat and warm sounding.

Best wishes in your adventure, it's a fun journey ain't it? Please keep us posted on your findings and I hope beautiful wood & steel finds your hands!

eric


thanks Eric for all the insight! Yes, I love this guitar journey we are on; makes life more bearable. I will definitely provide an update after my visit to a large guitar store.

Aaron