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  #1  
Old 07-19-2019, 04:03 AM
Michael Watts Michael Watts is offline
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Default Chinese luthiery and the Chinese Guitar market

Hello everyone,

I recently had the chance to talk with a dear friend of mine, Howard Feng, about the Chinese guitar scene and I recorded the conversation as I thought it might prove interesting.

Howard started as a guitar collector (you'll have seen his thread about his Gaffney MD) before moving into luthiery via a spell at the Roberto-Venn school in Arizona. He also wrote a thesis on the Chinese guitar market for his masters degree and as such is uniquely placed to share insights and expertise on the subject.

I have personally found it fascinating to work with Chinese clients and to see how the instrument we all love is being taken up in a strong, but still nascent, luxury goods market.

I hope you enjoy the chat

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Old 07-19-2019, 12:21 PM
Aaron Foster Aaron Foster is offline
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Thanks for sharing, this is very interesting. I have multiple conversations this year at shows with Chinese buyers, both individuals and in one instance with a man who was wanting to act as an importer purchasing at a discount to sell in China.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:52 PM
merlin666 merlin666 is offline
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I have many people of Chinese descent in my neighbourhood and social circles and they have interest in having their kids learn violin or piano. Never seen a Chinese person play guitar.

Last edited by TomB'sox; 07-19-2019 at 06:33 PM. Reason: added person to the post rather than "a chinese"
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:03 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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A few years ago I spent a couple of weeks in China as the guest of a group of Chinese guitar "hand builders" and I lectured them in a round table environment about the fine points of lutherie, gearing it for the level of their understanding gleaned from the level of their questions and concerns. The group of 30 included actual one man concerns as well as representatives from larger concerns like Eastman.

When I accepted their proposal I was worried about giving away the shop, as it were, as a cutting edge person in the leading arm of the competitive market. I was quite surprised to find the their concerns were more in line with entry level builders on message boards like this one that they were with what my peers and I talk about.

I came away from my China experience considerably less concerned about the future with regard to the viability of lutherie as a profession for high end builders living in western civilization.

I also exhibited at the Music-messe in Shanghai as part of my compensation. Up to that point I had been making some effort to crack the Chinese consumer market. Since then I have come to believe that I don't have enough time left in my career for that to work in my favor. Things change too slowly for my timeline, and most consumers there are not sufficiently steeped if the subtleties of our cultural icon, the acoustic guitar, to perceive the major differences between what such as I do, and, for instance, Music Link or Blueridge level guitars. I met a few players who were more sophisticated, but they were younger and not yet financially established.
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Last edited by Bruce Sexauer; 07-19-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:15 PM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin666 View Post
I have many people of Chinese descent in my neighbourhood and social circles and they have interest in having their kids learn violin or piano. Never seen a Chinese person play guitar.
Here's a couple of youtube videos that refute the quote above.




Last edited by TomB'sox; 07-19-2019 at 06:34 PM. Reason: change quote for consistency
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:31 PM
merlin666 merlin666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor B. View Post
Here's a couple of youtube videos that refute the quote above.
With a population of 1.4 Billion people there better be a handful good players among them ...
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:46 PM
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Interesting podcast Michael. Howard has a fairly unique vantage point and I appreciate his insights.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:46 PM
mcduffnw mcduffnw is offline
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Luthier John Greven is one of my very best friends, and he is getting a LOT interest from players in China, and a fair bit of business...orders...as well.

There have been both order requests from private citizens there, and a number of dealer inquiries/requests.

About two years ago, he had a gentleman from China, who was a really terrific player, come over to his house, and spend several hours visiting and playing, and talking guitars and specs and placing and order. The man kept taking notes into his phone all the while. The next morning, John woke up, went down to his office room in his home, and on his Fax maching were 3 or 4 separate faxes, all in Chinese, except for the words "Oshio D" which means John's Kotaro Oshio model dread. John got in contact with the man who had come over, and told him what had happened and the man told him those were order requests from 3 or 4...I don't remember the exact number but it was 3 or 4...of his friends in China. Besides taking notes in his phone, he had been texting back info to his friends during the visit.

So, there is a robust beginning demand for lutheir guitars in China, and the folks ordering do seem to be very good and very serious players, and students of the instrument, and high caliber dealers are beginning to come into business now too.

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Old 07-19-2019, 05:04 PM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin666 View Post
With a population of 1.4 Billion people there better be a handful good players among them ...
Many years ago I had the privilege of providing classical guitar instruction to a Chinese immigrant/refugee who had escaped with her family from China during the Cultural Revolution (app.1966-76). A child at the time she had been studying classical guitar for several years when the arrest of her guitar instructor put paid to her lessons.

After spending time in Taiwan and Japan she wound up in Canada. An adult by the time she reached our shores the desire to resume her study of the classical guitar never waned.

Long story short she was an excellent guitar student and had reached a high level of performance proficiency by the time she left my studio. She joined a list, not long but impressive by virtue of accomplishment with several other students of Chinese ethnicity who have passed through my teaching studio over the years.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:04 PM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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I think you have to differentiate between China Chinese as in people of Chinese ethnicity who live in and are citizens of the People's Republic of China and people of Chinese ethnicity living anywhere else in the world due to them being part of the Chinese diaspora.

For the latter, our exposure to the acoustic and electric guitars is usually quite extensive as most of the countries where the chinese emigrated to from China are either westernised or open to western influences to varying degrees. The latter cannot be equated to the former.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:41 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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From a classical guitar perspective:

The winner of the 2017 Guitar Foundation of America competition, Tengyue Zhang, is from China.

There are many talented Chinese classical guitarists.

Yulong Guo is a highly regarded maker of double top classical guitars.

Some "Cordoba" model guitars are made in China, and the quality and consistency seems to be pretty good.

Kenny Hill's "New World" line of guitars are made in China.

Last edited by ceciltguitar; 07-19-2019 at 08:41 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2019, 01:29 AM
SiliconValleySJ SiliconValleySJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin666 View Post
I have many people of Chinese descent in my neighbourhood and social circles and they have interest in having their kids learn violin or piano. Never seen a Chinese person play guitar.
I can't say I'm good, but I'm one. I do have my kids starting on other instruments but I'm pretty sure at least 1 will end up coming over to the dark side and playing guitar like their daddy.

I actually was in China recently and went to a guitar shop--played a couple of "expensive" (for China) hand builds. Not quite there yet, but it's only a matter of time as I see the technique getting pretty good.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2019, 03:16 AM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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The Avian guitars that were being sold till relatively recently were made in china according to designs by hary fleishman and michael baskin and they were really a lot of fingersryle guitar for the price and had a very high level of fit and finish again for the price. Nick Benjamin style bevels, slim versions of ryan bevels, and even hollow headstock like casimi is doing now. I have been told the avian company is out of businessm now but while it was around, it wa s a great deal. I hope the luthiers who worked for avian in china did not stop making guitars and that at least some of them are building under their own names.
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:31 AM
PonchoFrancisco PonchoFrancisco is offline
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Interesting to see Andrew Mah. His father Joe Mah made wonderful guitars. Joe was among ten or twelve of us who took night classes back in 1972. We all shared a blueprint (blue paper with white lines) of a Ramirez. The prime set of BRW needed for the class was ten dollars Canadian. Joe was a wonder man.
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:00 AM
chippygreen chippygreen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin666 View Post
I have many people of Chinese descent in my neighbourhood and social circles and they have interest in having their kids learn violin or piano. Never seen a Chinese person play guitar.
Marcus Wong of GE Guitar, frequently here on the Forum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOo_0hKFTq8

And because lots of Korean kids play violin or piano too, I hope some of them will follow the footsteps of one of my favorite artists, Sungha Jung, who played with TE when he was 13 (and he's a lot better now!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9xUSCmuIqI

Plus, some of these videos by Joil (also based in Korea) were influential in my decision to pursue a relationship with Michael Bashkin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lENZOYegbKk
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Last edited by chippygreen; 07-20-2019 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Added Joil clip
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