Cedar for Bluegrass?

[JerryM]

Just go to the tube and watch any BG biggies, Sutton, Rice, Skaggs, and hundreds of others if you find a cedar topped guitar I would be surprised. They won't cut it,,,Mando, Banjo, and fiddle are all very loud and will drown it out, to muddy for backup....no cut for lead.

[DukeX]

I love cedar tops as well. Have owned three, including a Cedar/Hog Larrivee D-05. It was a great playing and sounding guitar, but I don't play Bluegrass. I'd stick to spruce for that.

[J Patrick]

...there is only one rule in bluegrass instruments..."it ain't bluegrass without a banjo"...i kid...there are no rules...the frontman in a hard working bluegrass band that i used to play in used a Washburn cedar topped maple dreadnaught...his boom-chukka is right up there with the best of em...for the record i played guitar as well although not always at the same time...i was primarily using a Huss&Dalton Honduran Rosewood TDR that could easily bury a lot of guitars....and his guitar did the job admirably...i can't recall anyone ever calling him out on his guitar...

[Dut4907]

So what about the Blueridge BR-5060 John Horgenson Signature model with baked Port Orford ceder with prewar forward shifted X bracing and a enlarged soundhole, a model specifically made for bluegrass?-

[roylor4]

Why not call Maury at Maury's Music? If he doesn't have one perhaps he's played a few.

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by Dut4907

So what about the Blueridge BR-5060 John Horgenson Signature model with baked Port Orford ceder with prewar forward shifted X bracing and a enlarged soundhole, a model specifically made for bluegrass?-

Port Orford is a unique wood with the “cedar” moniker. It’s much stiffer, and from my understanding more similar in characteristic to a spruce than a cedar.

[MrErikJ]

You can play anything on anything, assuming you can play. Cedar is, due to its softer quality, often preferred for fingerstyle and less aggressive strumming and picking techniques. I have come to prefer cedar and find that my Alvarez MD65 responds nicely to a moderate touch and light-strumming. Aggressive strumming kinda makes it "crap out" and it starts to compress a bit. It also wears really easy with a light pick making my Alvarez look like Willie Nelson's Trigger in only a year and or two and I'm mostly a fingerpicker.

That said, it's more about the player and the construction of the guitar than the top wood alone. I believe Clarence White's favorite dread was a cedar-topped Mark Whitebook dreadnought. Use what you find best communicates your technique and provides the sound you like.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Aping Leo

I took my 714 Cedar/Rosewood to a friends to noodle and wound up in a kitchen with two grassers and their Martins. I don't think I could have heard myself if I dropped the guitar on the floor.

This is the issue. The Martins are still quiet compared to the banjos and mandolins. If you’re playing old time music by yourself, you can play any guitar, just like the old timers did. If you want to keep up with an ensemble you’ll need more volume than a typical cedar top will provide.

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Yes, I believe those people are called "hacks."

Similar to the people who disapprove of playing jazz on a Telecaster.

[noledog]

Originally Posted by PiousDevil

I think the difference here is the difference between “playing bluegrass” and “playing bluegrass type music in a solo or small group while amplified.” The problem with the cedar top is that, as mentioned, it will likely lack the projection and fundamental clarity required to cut through the mix in a bluegrass jam.

* Yeah PD, I understand the difference and I'm well aware of red cedar's general characteristics and as a full-time musician on and off the road with all kinds of guitars and ensembles from solo to bands, plugged and unplugged, I think I know a bit about cedar, that's why I specifically clarified my statement to MIJ Taks ONLY, who's cedar tops are stiffer, thicker and braced to handle more than your average cedar topped instruments, thus my reference to Steve Wariner as an example pertaining to the OP's interest with Takamine.

** I play loud and aggressively sometimes for some of the music I play as a soloist, and have owned Lowdens, Goodalls, Avalons and MIJ Taks with WRC tops. While the first 3 brands lacked the projection and clarity often associated with cedar, the Tak didn't lack anything unplugged or plugged in...would I take a cedar Tak over my D18 for flatpickin' some bluegrass?, well no, but can a MIJ cedar-topped Tak dread handle it?, yes it can, you'd be surprised and that's all I was offerin' from my experience.

*** Just for an example here's a non-Tak WR-cedar-topped dread with this description; " I was really impressed with this instrument. The tone is even and the projection is what you want to hear in a dreadnought guitar. For a Brazilian rosewood guitar, you won't find anything better in this price range. I was shocked the first time I picked this guitar up. It's such a featherweight! And yet it's got all the dreadnought projection, and a well-balanced tonal palette, and it plays oh, so smoothly. I loved flatpicking this guitar, but it also responded beautifully and comfortably to fingerstyle as well."

[markinsonoma]

The vast majority of my career along with education has been in the horticulture and the nursery industry. Common names of plants are the bane of my existence.

Cedar? Which one? There are more than one used for guitar tonewood, and to top it off the most commonly used cedars aren't even botanically members of the cedar family - they are actually in the cypress family.

I won't go into the whole latin name bit here, but the two most well known "cedars" used as guitar tops are western red cedar, and Port Orford cedar.

Western red is softer on the Janka harness scale than either Sitka or Adirondack Spruce. Port Orford cedar is actually harder on the Janka scale than both Sitka and Adirondack.

What has been lost in the shuffle in this discussion is the OP's mention of having an interest in the Blueridge John Jorgenson Signature model.

The top on the Jorgenson is Port Orford Cedar. Harder than Sitka or Adirondack. We know that this doesn't automatically translate to more cutting sound because of wood hardness (there's the "darker" and "brighter" factors as well), I'm just trying to get it out there that not all cedar is really "soft" in terms of the wood's properties.

One of the posters mentioned his Taylor 714 cedar earlier and how it got buried in a jam. I'm guessing right off that Taylor uses western red cedar, but I did a quick perusal of their site and all I could come up with was "cedar," nothing more specific than that. More "common name" annoyance for this lifelong nurseryman.

Back to the Blueridge Jorgenson model, I have yet to play one, but I did see John himself playing the guitar in 2016 at the Berkeley Bluegrass Festival with his bluegrass band. He mainly plays mando in that group and leaves most of the guitar duties to Herb Pedersen and Patrick Sauber, but he played his Blueridge on a few tunes and with a street price under $1000, it's a really nice guitar. It's getting a little scary just how good some of the higher end guitars from China are these days.

I haven't been here much lately and I'm striking out on how to embed a video but here's a link to John discussing and demonstrating the guitar at NAMM 2015.

https://youtu.be/fOmAX_wbGBU

[Dut4907]

Thanks Mark, glad to see someone saw the other part of my post.

That’s the exact video that caught my attention.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by jomaynor

Similar to the people who disapprove of playing jazz on a Telecaster.

Yknow, I think the tele has even become jazz snob acceptable. Nobody bats an eyelash at mine...

[Misifus]

Don’t forget, a tone that sounds great on its own in your practice room may totally disappear when played in an ensemble. I’ve got a lovely luthier made small jumbo in Adirondack over Brazilian. On its own it has a lovely tone, warm, rich and full. In a bluegrass group it just disappears. I wouldn’t take for it, but I use a Sitka over hog for Bluegrass.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by HHP

See a few Lowden cedar top D size guitars. Something like that might work well

I have a Lowden D guitar with cedar top/hog back. Just got it back from the shop - Neck reset. It is the loudest guitar I have ever played. It would cut through any crowd.

However, I am gassing for a new D-28 so I am listing it for sale Localy.