Sunnaudio vs Grace Design

[PANDAPANDELO]

Hi there, folks. I am searching for the next step into making my plugged in sound even better. I just installed a Dazzo Pickup that makes me very happy with almost no EQ.

I have heard that Dazzo Pickup don't have much need for Tonedexter/Voiceprint style preamps, because it already sounds natural, so I was thinking in two brands: Sunnaudio and Grace Design.

I could go with the Stage DI from Sunnaudio, or with the Grace Design Bix. Both are in the same price tag, and I would like to know if any of you had the experience of working with both units (or one of them).

I could also wait a little longer to get the bigger version of Grace Design, the Felix. It have a lot more eq to work with, but the Dazzo don't need THAT much of EQ. The possibility would be nice to work with a vocal mic (Neumann KMS105). Have any of you worked with the Felix as a vocal mic preamp, too? Do you guys think it worth the extra money?

Anyway... sorry for all those questions. Living in Brazil is not good for testing gear, and the investment is really big for me, so I like to ask those questions for you, guys, that have a lot more experience than me.

Thank you,

Rodrigo.

[meb]

The sunnaudio Stage DI has been my Go To preamp for 2 or 3 years, now.
I use it with soundhole pickups, Sunrise, Black Angel, BlackStack, AG-6, etc.
I have tried many preamps and keep a few options handy, but the Stage
sounds best to me. It has a nice full sound with a lot of micro-dynamic
nuance. It almost always is run flat.

I bought an Alix about 18 months ago, and sent it back. I bought a Bix
about 3 months ago to try and sent it back. Too bad, because it has
almost a perfect feature set for my PB needs. To my ear, they sound
sterile and thin. Maybe the preamps did not mate well with my pickups,
or maybe I am inept at dialing them in.

Also, the folks at sunnaudio are great to deal with.

Good luck !

[varmonter]

Hi Rodrigo.
I've used the felix as a standalone
Mixer...more as an experiment than an actual solution to anything.
I would only caution when using
The boost feature that it boost
Both channels .. and will cause
Your mic to feedback ruining any
Guitar solo you were about to do.
Dont ask me how I know this..ha.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Hi Rodrigo.
I've used the felix as a standalone
Mixer...more as an experiment than an actual solution to anything.
I would only caution when using
The boost feature that it boost
Both channels .. and will cause
Your mic to feedback ruining any
Guitar solo you were about to do.
Dont ask me how I know this..ha.

Another thing, if you run anything in the loop it will applied equally to both channels. That said as a 2 channel mixer it sounds good with vocals and guitar together.

[Doug Young]

Since are running into a QSC mixer, with lots of channels, I don't see the benefit of running a vocal mic into a Felix which then goes on to your mixer. It would allow you to mute your mic with the footswitch, but you lose the independence of the vocal mic and the guitar, the ability to have different effects on each, and so on.

As far as sound quality, it would be fine, tho. The Felix is basically Grace's m101 studio preamp. The audio quality of the mic preamp is likely much higher than your QSC's preamps, not that anyone would be likely to notice the difference. The QSC sounds fine. I just don't expect I'd care for the resulting routing.

You could use a Felix to directly drive your powered speakers, tho, and not even use the QSC, for a simpler setup (with some loss of features that you have with your QSC)

[PANDAPANDELO]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Since are running into a QSC mixer, with lots of channels, I don't see the benefit of running a vocal mic into a Felix which then goes on to your mixer. It would allow you to mute your mic with the footswitch, but you lose the independence of the vocal mic and the guitar, the ability to have different effects on each, and so on.

As far as sound quality, it would be fine, tho. The Felix is basically Grace's m101 studio preamp. The audio quality of the mic preamp is likely much higher than your QSC's preamps, not that anyone would be likely to notice the difference. The QSC sounds fine. I just don't expect I'd care for the resulting routing.

You could use a Felix to directly drive your powered speakers, tho, and not even use the QSC, for a simpler setup (with some loss of features that you have with your QSC)

I think that the biggest problems would be the lack of Reverb... But If It use a Nice Room Reverb on the fx loop of It, would It Go to the vocals as well? If It does, then I could use It as a Mixer and forget the touchmix in most scenarios.

[Br1ck]

SunnAudio an Teddy Randazzo worked together to make the SunnAudio perfect for Dazzos. SunnAudio works fine with anything, but is tailor made, literally, for Dazzos. I have two SunnAudio products, a custom blender they built me in a box, and a Stage DI. Both sound superb, and not just with Dazzos.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

I think that the biggest problems would be the lack of Reverb... But If It use a Nice Room Reverb on the fx loop of It, would It Go to the vocals as well? If It does, then I could use It as a Mixer and forget the touchmix in most scenarios.

Right, Grace told me a while back that they were going to have an update to the Felix to support separate effects inserts for each channel, but I'm not sure if that's happened. On mine, there's one effects insert and it applies to the blended output.

[guitarman68]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

I think that the biggest problems would be the lack of Reverb... But If It use a Nice Room Reverb on the fx loop of It, would It Go to the vocals as well? If It does, then I could use It as a Mixer and forget the touchmix in most scenarios.

As rockabilly69 posted: Yes ! The fx loop would go to channel 1 AND channel 2 on the Felix. Same with the solo boost !
To me it looks like there's no need for a Felix (although sure it's great to own one).

[PANDAPANDELO]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Hi Rodrigo.
I've used the felix as a standalone
Mixer...more as an experiment than an actual solution to anything.
I would only caution when using
The boost feature that it boost
Both channels .. and will cause
Your mic to feedback ruining any
Guitar solo you were about to do.
Dont ask me how I know this..ha.

Hahahahhahaha! I would love to know about the experience you had the day you figured out that the boost made the vocal Mic go wild. Hahahahha

[Ken Carr]

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but I have the Dazzo 60 in a guitar with the Sunnaudio Tonedriver pre-amp installed onboard. It does sound great to me, but when I put it through my Tonedexter, it is amazing! I cannot compare it to the Dazzo without the Tonedriver, because I installed them together. I will say that the combined results with the Tonedexter is phenomenal. I don't want to talk you out of getting either of these fabulous pre-amps, as I believe that either one will serve you well. I just don't think you should be quick to rule the Tonedexter out.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Ken Carr

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but I have the Dazzo 60 in a guitar with the Sunnaudio Tonedriver pre-amp installed onboard. It does sound great to me, but when I put it through my Tonedexter, it is amazing! I cannot compare it to the Dazzo without the Tonedriver, because I installed them together. I will say that the combined results with the Tonedexter is phenomenal. I don't want to talk you out of getting either of these fabulous pre-amps, as I believe that either one will serve you well. I just don't think you should be quick to rule the Tonedexter out.

Especially the 2.0 firmware works great with the Dazzo's for me.

[PANDAPANDELO]

Great to know that, Ken. It would be great If I could have a similar result of a mic'd acoustic blend with Dazzo If I use the Tonedexter. I could let It on the wishlist, If It makes a good difference.

Originally Posted by Ken Carr

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but I have the Dazzo 60 in a guitar with the Sunnaudio Tonedriver pre-amp installed onboard. It does sound great to me, but when I put it through my Tonedexter, it is amazing! I cannot compare it to the Dazzo without the Tonedriver, because I installed them together. I will say that the combined results with the Tonedexter is phenomenal. I don't want to talk you out of getting either of these fabulous pre-amps, as I believe that either one will serve you well. I just don't think you should be quick to rule the Tonedexter out.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Hahahahhahaha! I would love to know about the experience you had the day you figured out that the boost made the vocal Mic go wild. Hahahahha

Not hard to imagine I was at a gig with the band. I generally use a small inline 48v phantom powered mic pre.
It's about the size of a shotgun shell.
It works pretty good. But I figured
I would try the much better mic pre on ch 1 of the felix. At a gig( fail) . So I
adjusted the eq and it sounded pretty
great. Nice clear loud..really good.
I had the guitar and vocal blended pretty well and things were going pretty good. Came time about third song in to do a guitar lead. I normally
Just hit the boost button on the felix for leads. When I did it also boosted
The mic and it squealed quite loudly.
I quickly hit the button and no harm
Done...Now I knew it boosted both
Channels...I just hit the boost out of habit. Ha..a bit embarrasing.
I can mute the mic on the board
If I'm not singing the song ...but solo
Not so much..
I'd bet the folks at grace could put a dip switch in to select a chan to boost.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Great to know that, Ken. It would be great If I could have a similar result of a mic'd acoustic blend with Dazzo If I use the Tonedexter. I could let It on the wishlist, If It makes a good difference.

If you're blending with a mic, you may not benefit as much from ToneDexter. Say TD improves your sound by 10%. If you do a 50/50 blend, then the pickup is only 50% of your sound, so you get a 5% improvement. In reality, it's less than that because just a little bit of mic masks a lot of the unnatural sound of any pickup. With a 50/50 blend, your ear's not going to hear the "pickup" sound all that much. But if you're playing in situations where you can only use the pickup, it could be a more noticeable help.