Ramirez 4E

[David Rock]

After a three year hiatus, I just dug my 4E out of the storage unit. My wife and I live on a sailboat and the 4E had to live on land for some years.

I know the Ramirez 4E doesn't get a whole lot of respect necessarily as a "great" classical guitar, but I bought it 17 years ago when I knew so little. It just happened to be the best sounding classical guitar I had ever heard...Still not too bad.

I am loving every minute of this re-acquaintance so far. I see some potential here.

My question is...With the bold and what I would call "dark" sound of this guitar, what are thoughts about Daddario Pro Arte carbon strings?

My go to guitar is a Taylor NS72ce (cedar/rosewood with Pro Arte composites -- a crossover guitar) for several reasons.

Now I am wondering if the Ramirez will become my go to guitar.

I use a sure SM81 mic when recording.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

This is with the NS72ce:

[dkstott]

#1 there is no link to your sample

Choosing strings is going to depend on what you want out of your guitar. It's a trial and error process.

I believe the 4E has a Cedar top, so it's going to be a bit mellower than a spruce top even after all these years.

I'm not a fan of the Pro-Arte strings at all... They've been too dull for me and don't last very long.

If you are trying to get the high end brighter, I'd recommend trying out the Savarez Alliance 510AR strings. It'll be a bit brighter for you.

[Red_Label]

I'm a big Pro Arte fan (on classical guitars)... but I agree with the poster above. They're not going to liven-up your Ramirez. I've been loving the Luthier Populare 20s on my flamencos, though I haven't tried them on my classicals. They're brighter and have more sizzle, though that may not be what you're looking for on your 4E.

[David Rock]

I am new to the forum so I don't understand what "there is no link to my sample" means. I think it plays??? Are you looking for my Soundcloud account link?

Actually what I have used in the past is Savarez (original? rectified? with the texture on the trebles - very high tension).

I agree conceptually with "what am I looking for in tone?" being the driving question...I am not sure. I have no one to bounce my style/tone off of. It is certainly not a "classical" style as I am not formally trained nor do I "work" for or desire a classical touch.

What I do know is that the songs I compose sound different on my guitars (Taylor 814ce, Taylor NS72ce, and Ramirez 4E) some better some, well, not so much. It depends on the song. Seems I have written more on my steel string 814. I am not sure exactly why.

In fact the reason I had my 4E in storage is that it felt like a lot more potential than I was capable of harnessing. It still feels that way. Such that I don't know exactly how to bring out the best in this guitar...

My style seems all over the board (so to speak). I am generally chasing a melody over all six strings, not necessarily using the base notes as rhythm/support. Maybe someone could listen to some samples of my compositions and give some guidance...I think my compositions are good, but not sure they are "complete" . In other words...I am happy with what I write, but am keen that I have a lot to learn.

All of this a lot of words to say, I am not sure what I want in sound out of this guitar, but maybe just sticking with Savarez rectified or Alliance HT is good until I do, is appropriate.

Thanks for any help or guidance.

[riffmeister]

If you want a brighter sound, use a set with carbon trebles. Nylon trebles, and especially the rectified variety, will be a lot less bright. Easy to remember: carbon = bright, nylon = less bright.

[Ceabeceabe]

Try a bunch of strings and see what you like best is probably the only way to get where you are trying to go in terms of string decisions.

A few years ago I got my hands on a used Ramirez 4E, and love it. Since it is a "bigger" build along traditional Spanish lines, and has a cedar top, 4E's will tend to be less crisp.

Based on the strings' use on another guitar in the past (Kremona), I tried Savarez high tension strings on the 4E and did not like them. Too brittle and snappy (probably well suited for Flamenco - but I'd bet there are strings designed specifically for Flamenco guitars) for my desires. I then tried Pro Arte high tension and really liked those; gave it a full sound and added some note separation. All things being equal, the carbon fiber ought to give you some more note separation and perhaps offer a bit more "treble influenced" sound.

(As an aside, be aware that terms like "high tension" are general descriptors, and that the actual diameters and tensions vary some from brand to brand within the same nomenclature.)

But owing to what the 4E is in terms of its design as described above, you might also consider looking at a Spruce topped guitar. Doesn't always make a huge difference, but the rights Spruce topped guitar in comparison to a 4E it just might.

Curtis

[janepaints]

My fave strings to 'lively up' a nylon string guitar are D'addario Pro-Arte Dynacore W/Titanium Trebles--though I've sometimes replaced the Dynacore G string with a D'Addario Composite G string--the coffee-colored one.

[oldtimeblues]

I wouldn't try to liven up a Ramirez. I agree, just gotta try many. Avoid full sets. Full sets are just the manufacturers suggestion of what basses would sound good with what trebles. I changed one string at a time when I was trying to liven up my Ramirez. Those carbon trebles get old fast. Pro Arte ej47 basses 80/20. You'll either love them or hate them. Give them a try if you like the sound of steel bass but nylon.
Also, that d addario carbon treble e string was the brightest most pure I ever found, but hard to match up with a good G string for me.