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  #31  
Old 11-21-2010, 03:51 PM
scooter74 scooter74 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
<snip snip>It's important for a company to be confident in their own decision making abilities. It's also important to develop a feel for why something works well, or perhaps not so well...<snip snip snip>
Seems to me you and Tony are basically making Ted's point while trying to argue with him. Both of you are ignoring that the Cargo did work sales were great. January of 2009 I placed an order for a Cargo and was quoted three months. They couldn't build them fast enough! CA just needed to raise the price and they would have been fine.

BTW, hasn't this horse been beaten, stabbed, and shot to death already?
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  #32  
Old 11-21-2010, 05:28 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstev View Post
Seems to me you and Tony are basically making Ted's point while trying to argue with him. Both of you are ignoring that the Cargo did work sales were great. January of 2009 I placed an order for a Cargo and was quoted three months. They couldn't build them fast enough! CA just needed to raise the price and they would have been fine.

BTW, hasn't this horse been beaten, stabbed, and shot to death already?
There is nothing in my posts that would indicate that the Cargo didn't sell well. All I said was that many people have posted that they would prefer a longer scale (i.e. that the current scale is a bit cramped). Clearly, that did not seem to negatively affect sales and I did not say that it did.

As for "this horse been beaten, stabbed, and shot to death...", the subject will continue to come up. It is certainly easy enough to ignore these threads since they do usually indicate "Cargo" in the subject line. Those who want to discuss the Cargo and associated subjects will continue to do so and those who are bothered by it can simply ignore those same subjects. Easy enough.

Tony
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  #33  
Old 11-21-2010, 05:39 PM
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Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstev View Post
Seems to me you and Tony are basically making Ted's point while trying to argue with him. Both of you are ignoring that the Cargo did work sales were great. January of 2009 I placed an order for a Cargo and was quoted three months. They couldn't build them fast enough! CA just needed to raise the price and they would have been fine.

BTW, hasn't this horse been beaten, stabbed, and shot to death already?

I'm not trying to argue with anyone.

I am simply making a point about *my* opinion...and I know that a successful company with an already successful product will often rely on market-research to develop and enhance products.

The various guitar-fora could be considered a hot-bed to gather research in some areas...if you ask me.

...and a successful company also has to know what they're doing, by and large. There's no conflict with these two observations.

"...beaten, stabbed, and shot to death already?"

Vivid/violent imagery for a simple discussion forum.

Like Tony, I have not mentioned anywhere that I believed that the Cargo was unsuccessful, sales-wise, in the marketplace...so I'm not at all sure where your comments about this originate. Perhaps you're looking for something that is not there, within the critical commentary offered by me?

Like Tony, I think the 22.75" scale length is fantastic. Not everyone agreed with us on this, of course, and that's fine. I also happen to think correct neck-angle, an adjustable truss-rod and a stable body/neck area are important issues that Peavey should consider when diving into their manufacturing of this product.

Is there any problem with me having and expressing this opinion?



Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstev View Post
CA just needed to raise the price and they would have been fine.

Not in my opinion...and I know several retailers that are hoping for a "new and improved" product if/when the Cargo re-emerges, regardless of price.

BTW, I know there are plenty of folks here that believe the Cargo was a perfect product as manufactured by CA. All I can say to that is the more you know, the more you might begin to question this. This includes information that has been made public on the forums about the problems with manufacturing, returns to the factory, etc.

I am NOT offering a blanket negative criticism about Cargos, and I am not criticizing *your* Cargo, nor your love/appreciation of your Cargo....I'm just saying that there can be improvements to the product. The same is true for lots of stuff I have around my home.
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Last edited by Larry Pattis; 11-21-2010 at 07:04 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-21-2010, 08:23 PM
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A mini review/comparison that I posted in another thread...


Cargo: woodier, bassier, darker, fuller & warmer, better strummer, better vocal accompaniment, more versatile, louder from player's perspective, back contour is more ergonomic

X7: more balanced, brighter, slightly longer sustain, better fingerstyle guitar, louder from listener's perspective, lighter and cleaner construction, better pickup & gigbag


I think this is a rather fair comparison... each model has its own pluses/minuses. Although I prefer Cargo, somebody else may prefer X7.
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  #35  
Old 11-21-2010, 10:15 PM
chistrummer chistrummer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstev View Post
They couldn't build them fast enough! CA just needed to raise the price and they would have been fine.
That seems to be the consensus among business people who looked in to buying CA and also their number one dealer.

Quote:
BTW, hasn't this horse been beaten, stabbed, and shot to death already?
Well of course it has, that's what happens when something dies before it's time. And make no mistake, Composite Acoustics as you knew it is as dead as the horse we are all beating..
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  #36  
Old 11-21-2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petelor View Post
That seems to be the consensus among business people who looked in to buying CA and also their number one dealer.
McDonald's also has sold a lot of burgers, and demand doesn't seem to be diminishing.

What irrefutable conclusions about the quality of the products can one draw from this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by petelor View Post
<snip> ...And make no mistake, Composite Acoustics as you knew it is as dead as the horse we are all beating..

CA is certainly quite dead...

...and all anyone can do is guess what Peavey is going to do with any of the guitar models, pricing, etc. I'm not guessing anything, however. I'm simply reflecting on the prior product, my interactions with CA and retailers, and thinking out loud about those experiences.
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  #37  
Old 11-22-2010, 04:23 AM
P_K P_K is offline
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i have both guitars: x7 and cargo raw

they are both amazing guitars and i really love them. my vote goes to the x7, hands down. more confortable, light, quite more playable and versatile. the cargo is darker and compressed, which limits its posibilities. the posibilities of the x7 and flexibility are endless soundwise. i love the sound of the x7 more than the cargo.

it is like the people that like fender amps and guitars: you have a given tone. it is wonderful, but you will always sound like a fender. this happens with the cargo. with the x7 i can get a wider array of sounds and voices, all excelents

more trivia: emerald guitars are not prepreg. it's been said around the forums and it is completely wrong. i know it directly from Alistair Hay. he has a very well kept secret about his building methods

CA killed himself: his success was also his poison. the cargo is an amazing instrument that performs amazingly in every aspect for its price. the market response was amazing. they couldn't keep up with the production. the problem was that it was built under reasonable production price. they had to hurry to produce enough guitars to feed the market which lead to start having problems with quality control because of the hurry. the cargo was introduced to make people approach carbon fiber guitars, so they would buy a larger CA guitar afterwards, but it ended in a not so wise decission.

for me both scales are great. i don't feel that a 25.5 scale is compulsory for a guitar to work properly. anyway, i prefer the scale of the x7 (24')

we should remember: they are travel guitars. it is amazing how people consider them as real guitars. in fact, i do it. i am currently touring with the x7. is a new era of guitars starting now? i love huge sound, but i prefer the guitar not to be huge

anyway, we were talking about a comparison between this two guitars, but many points jump whenever CA is mentioned. someday someone will do a doctoral thesis about this XDDD

you can check my signature: i play the x7 in some recent clips of my youtube channel. sound is not very good, but you can get an idea
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:03 AM
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I found in playing the Emerald X10 that the neck heel was very long and bulky, does the X7 have the same characteristics?
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  #39  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:19 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Interesting conversation. Somebody in this thread indicated this was an argument. However, it seems to me to be merely a discussion with differeing views and tastes in guitars represented. If we all shared the same view and taste, there really would be little need for discussion. the main thing is respect for one another's views. Such discussion about the Cargo or carbon fiber guitars in general is not "beating a dead horse" any more than discussion of any other maker's instruments whether the company still exists or not.

I have played the Emerald X5 and the X10. I did not care for the sound of either, though I do think they are well built guitars and can certainly see the appeal for other players. For me, there was something just missing from the guitar. I realize that some would claim that it did not have the right strings or that my technique was not right for the guitar or whatever. But I never had that problem with other instruments, so there is definitely something different with these guitars. Other instruments I have played might have sounded better with different strings or technique, but they all sounded "right" to my ears to begin with.

For me the Cargo is the "perfect" guitar. It has a sound that I personally really like acoustically and I also much prefer the shorter scale length with the 1 3/4" nut width. Other people who have heard me play the guitar unamplified have said they liked it too and were surprised at the sound that could come from such a small instrument. It is shame that CA Guitars did not survive, and I am sure that there are many reasons for it, some of which have been discussed in these forums, but also with these things, we on the outside will probably never know the whole story.

Anyway, I have three RT wine-colored Cargos, all without whatever quality issues some have experienced. All three have the K & K pickups installed by Marty at The Podium. It took some experimentation to get a sound out of them that I liked, but in the end it was worth the effort. The Cargo seems particularly challenging in that area, with its strong midrange component.

Opinions will vary from person to person on these issues, so I want to make it clear that I am merely stating my own preferences in guitars. I think the Emerald guitars that I played were decent instruments, but just not for me. For others, there have been many comments in this and the MacNichol forum that the scale length of the Cargo was too cramped. Again, for some people this will be true, but not for me. We are all different in our tastes, playing styles/technique, and overall needs in a guitar. I feel very fortunate that the Cargo matched my needs/wants so well. It can take a lifetime of buying/selling/trading to find that "right" instrument. To me, it has less to do with price, the name on the headstock, and that sort of thing than it does with how workable it is for a given player.

There was a lot of excitement and discussion about the CA Guitars and especially the Cargo when it was on the market and the company was active and productive. It stands to reason that there will continue to be discussion and speculation about both in the future. Whether the Cargo increases or decreases in value over time is of little importance to me personally because I intend to just continue to use my Cargos as they were intended. I do hope that CA Guitars' products see the ligt of day with Peavey and that they continue to generate the interest they did in the past. If anything, the excitement generated by CA Guitars certainly seemed to raise overall awareness of the merits of carbon fiber instruments among players in general, and that is a good thing in my opinion. Rainsong, Blackbird, Emerald, are all making very nice instruments that would cater to a variety of players' needs. I hope that trend continues.

Tony
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  #40  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:11 AM
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Itself herself:

Light strings all except for the x-7 Woody.

Cargo Blue RT (Baby Blue)


Cargo Raw (X-7 up in the corner)


OX Raw


Her own Voyager
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  #41  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:25 AM
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Next to a Weber Octave Mandolin:



The Cargo Gang

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Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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  #42  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:33 AM
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X-7 and Cargo





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Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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  #43  
Old 11-22-2010, 12:54 PM
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I want to add one thing. It really became clear with Kramster's collection that each guitar serves a distinct purpose. The X7, for example, seems to amplify better than the Cargos. The Raw and the RT had "different" sounds. So its not that the X7 is bad, for.me it would not serve my purpose as a stand alone guitar without amplification.

I can see why he owns so many CF guitars! It is really fun playing each with their own distinct characters.
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  #44  
Old 11-22-2010, 02:04 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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My pictures say a few hundred words but here are some actual ones..

First ....Lisa is so full of wide eyed enthusiasm and is so darn much fun when doing these guitars "tests and reviews". Love the way she plays and sings with feeling and makes all the guitars sound pretty darn good... just sayin'.

Good stuff on this thread for sure. I agree with some of what all is said here. When I try these various guitars or try amps, effects, keyboards (my main thing)... I just play them for what they are ... some more for travel, or woody sound or carbon fiber chimmy or louder or richer or more real piano... or whatever. I don't think about widths and lengths of necks (scale), key size..switching from guitar to guitar or mandolin or weighted or unweighted keyboards ...it all is just adjusting to that particular instrument. If I have fun playing and am inspired to play more, plugged in or not, than that works for me and that can come across to listeners.
True I always want the best sound (different to so many) out of which ever instrument I'm playing, but still boils down to putting the feeling in and then out to the audience (mostly just me).
We have all (well I have anyway) gone to hear others and think... gee that guitar sounds crappy... but yet the artist is putting it out and having fun and the crowd likes it too...and versa- visa... gee that guitar sounds awesome but no one seems to notice or care...
I think the reason I have so many critters to play as I like to just try everything (and no control helps). Pretty much everyone of them was at one time my favorite guitar to play... some lasted longer at top of the charts than others. X-10 is currently at the top with the X-7 at #2 (especially plugged in) and diggin' my old Tak GS 330S (yes wood) at #3.
Maybe in a couple weeks when my commissioned matching mandolin and octave mandolin from Gypsy's Music are done I might get into them and might steal my time and weasel into top honors... for a while anyway. ...

So Cargo vs X-7 you may ask..??.. I will always have both and love them for what/who they are... there you have it. Hope I made some sense as I am not a gifted point putter acrosser in the typed word.

Thanks for reading.
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Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
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