The hole that Composite Acoustics has left

[Doubleneck]

This has been a very open forum and certainly their was an acceptance for the discussion of carbon guitars. Some, like me, love them and many don't, preferring traditional wood. But I think the demise of CA has been fairly devastating to the carbon guitar world. Where the end of a historic wood maker even like Gibson would be sad, I don't think it would shake the wood guitar family to the core. I think the death of CA has had that effect on us carbonites. Though there are other companies out there Emerald, Rainsong, and Blackbird, I don't think there is anyone right now, that can fill the void that CA has left. very sad.

[engr_scotty]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

This has been a very open forum and certainly their was an acceptance for the discussion of carbon guitars. Some, like me, love them and many don't, preferring traditional wood. But I think the demise of CA has been fairly devastating to the carbon guitar world. Where the end of a historic wood maker even like Gibson would be sad, I don't think it would shake the wood guitar family to the core. I think the death of CA has had that effect on us carbonites. Though there are other companies out there Emerald, Rainsong, and Blackbird, I don't think there is anyone right now, that can fill the void that CA has left. very sad.

As an owner of a CA OX Raw, I tend to agree. Even though I don't know all that much about the company or it's business model, or if Boeing and it's new composite airplane, or if scandal, or questionable quality control, or if the economy had anything to do with CA's demise. I do know that they made a very affordable, solid product that will stand the test of time. I just wonder who will fill that void too (i.e. take over the CA product line...). Any rumors out there...?

[gerardo1000]

I owned CA guitars, Rainsong and Emerald. I personally am a Rainsong fan, but it is true that CA guitars were extremely popular and well loved.
It will be difficult for the competition to fill the void left by CA unless they decide to invest and dramatically diversify their offer both in terms of models and price, as CA did.
A proof that CA was an important part of carbon fiber guitar industry is the Carbon Fiber Guitar Forum (now Mac Nichol Forum) that is much less active now that CA is out of the picture.

[Doubleneck]

I think to put in wood terms. If a company like Gibson goes out, there are lots of places where I could buy a slope shoulder or a jumbo that are probably better made and sound similar. For us carbonites, if we had to replace some of the CA models, I am not sure the retail market offers an alternative that would be as satisfying.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

I think to put in wood terms. If a company like Gibson goes out, there are lots of places where I could buy a slope shoulder or a jumbo that are probably better made and sound similar. For us carbonites, if we had to replace some of the CA models, I am not sure the retail market offers an alternative that would be as satisfying.

Now you have me thinking that maybe I should put one of my Cargos in a safety deposit box.

Tony

[J.R. Rogers]

It's really sad that an innovator like CA went out of business. However, the door is wide open. Demand is there, supply is missing. Maybe we'll see a few more small custom carbon guitar builders step in to fill the void.

...or maybe some of the big guitar builders will innovate and try to solve some of the problems that the CA guitars solved. Fabricated woods from renewable sources or other alternatives like micarta used on a larger scale, carbon fiber inserts in key places on wood guitars to prevent or limit movement, or high-tech finishes that would completely resist cracking, etc. The acoustic guitar is a wonderful imperfect instrument, and I'll get behind people who are trying to make it better and keep this instrument popular for future generations.

JR

[Lougar]

I hate to say this but I don't believe anyone will fill the shoes of CA. I own a GX, a Cargo, both RT wine finish and a Tobacco Burst Bluegrass Legacy Standard. All three just simply wonderful guitars at a reasonable price.
I was one the first to jump on the Cargo when it came out. Mine came with the oversized ill fitting gig bag that the first few cargos were shipped with. It also had a bit of a buzz on the lower "E" string. I called CA to see what I could do. To my surprise I received a call from Ellis Seal the owner. He sent me a new nut and saddle with detailed directions on installing them plus a set of medium strings. He told me that he had just become aware of that problem on some cargos and would not ship any more until that problem was fixed. He asked if I would email him and let him know if what he sent over when put on the guitar fixed the problem. It did! I wrote and told him and also mentioned that he should get a better fitting gig bag. Within a week or so to my surprise and delight I received the new better fitting gig bag with other goodies inside and a hand written note from Mr. Seal thanking me for what I had done. I was blown away. I am very sad to see them go.

[mr.meeogy]

Originally Posted by Lougar

I hate to say this but I don't believe anyone will fill the shoes of CA. I own a GX, a Cargo, both RT wine finish and a Tobacco Burst Bluegrass Legacy Standard. All three just simply wonderful guitars at a reasonable price.
I was one the first to jump on the Cargo when it came out. Mine came with the oversized ill fitting gig bag that the first few cargos were shipped with. It also had a bit of a buzz on the lower "E" string. I called CA to see what I could do. To my surprise I received a call from Ellis Seal the owner. He sent me a new nut and saddle with detailed directions on installing them plus a set of medium strings. He told me that he had just become aware of that problem on some cargos and would not ship any more until that problem was fixed. He asked if I would email him and let him know if what he sent over when put on the guitar fixed the problem. It did! I wrote and told him and also mentioned that he should get a better fitting gig bag. Within a week or so to my surprise and delight I received the new better fitting gig bag with other goodies inside and a hand written note from Mr. Seal thanking me for what I had done. I was blown away. I am very sad to see them go.

Never had any experiences with them, but reading this I wish I did.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

It's really sad that an innovator like CA went out of business. However, the door is wide open. Demand is there, supply is missing. Maybe we'll see a few more small custom carbon guitar builders step in to fill the void.

<<snip>>

Demand is perhaps there, but what level of price elasticity does the consumer have for these guitars?

It's apparent that on top of the difficult economy, either CA was poorly run (I'm NOT suggesting this), or their products (especially at the low-price end) were simply under-priced given all the costs to make the guitars.

If CA is somehow resurrected, I can't see their prices doing anything but going up, and perhaps substantially up. If this is the case, demand might not be where it once was.

[pathdo]

I love my CA and really still hope somehow the company comes back. I have a very early Legacy "prototype" I purchased directly from the company after it was used for testing. I absolutely love it and will never part with it.

[Misifus]

I wonder how much the shut down affected their demise. The plant was closed for many months during the retooling. There was a lot of catching up to do financially. With the recession, it may have been just the straw that broke the camel's back.

-Raf

[captivate]

I wasn't a particular fan of CA guitars, but I did like the idea of wood alternative guitars. The departure of CA is indeed quite a loss. A step backwards, really.

In my mind, I've always thought of these composite guitars as being a possible alternative for cheap laminate guitars in the future. It would be durable and sound decent enough for an entry level guitar.

[weisser]

Originally Posted by Lougar

I hate to say this but I don't believe anyone will fill the shoes of CA. I own a GX, a Cargo, both RT wine finish and a Tobacco Burst Bluegrass Legacy Standard. All three just simply wonderful guitars at a reasonable price.
I was one the first to jump on the Cargo when it came out. Mine came with the oversized ill fitting gig bag that the first few cargos were shipped with. It also had a bit of a buzz on the lower "E" string. I called CA to see what I could do. To my surprise I received a call from Ellis Seal the owner. He sent me a new nut and saddle with detailed directions on installing them plus a set of medium strings. He told me that he had just become aware of that problem on some cargos and would not ship any more until that problem was fixed. He asked if I would email him and let him know if what he sent over when put on the guitar fixed the problem. It did! I wrote and told him and also mentioned that he should get a better fitting gig bag. Within a week or so to my surprise and delight I received the new better fitting gig bag with other goodies inside and a hand written note from Mr. Seal thanking me for what I had done. I was blown away. I am very sad to see them go.

I had the opportunity to play a Cargo when I first started at Mandolin Bros. in December of 07. The rep from the company brought in a prototype and we all played it. I decided that I had to get one and received it in April '08. It also came with the ill-fitting gig bag, and I was sent the correct bag when it became available. They were always a pleasure to speak with and were open to suggestions. The first Baritone they sent us had some issues. We suggested some changed to Ellis and the second one we received was great. Great people with a wonderful product....who can say what went wrong.

[K III]

No hole hear, but a Cargo RT carbonburst.

[edman]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Demand is perhaps there, but what level of price elasticity does the consumer have for these guitars?

It's apparent that on top of the difficult economy, either CA was poorly run (I'm NOT suggesting this), or their products (especially at the low-price end) were simply under-priced given all the costs to make the guitars.

If CA is somehow resurrected, I can't see their prices doing anything but going up, and perhaps substantially up. If this is the case, demand might not be where it once was.

Exactly - The high entry level prices keep many consumers away.

I hate to say this, but the first company that starts building them in China will have an excellent opportunity to dominate the market.