12 string playability

[1neeto]

A few months ago I got a hold of a mid 70’s Ventura 12 string and didn’t really played it until I got new strings for it today. First thing I noticed is that it was very buzzy. Easy fix when I realized it was that the action was way too low and the strings were buzzing at the saddle. A few turns of the action adjusting screws took care of that. The neck had way too much relief so I adjusted the truss rod. Very scary thing to do on a 40 year old guitar. It still has a bit too much relief.

I have to say that it sounds great but it’s a bit hard to play. The wider neck and the fact I must fret two strings at a time instead of one is a bit challenging, but I’m having fun with it.

[Greg Ballantyne]

I haven't really tried any of the upper end boutique or custom 12 strings, but I've always thought of Taylor 12 strings as 12 strings that play like 6 string guitars. I'm not a 12 string sort of fellow, but I've had a few Taylor 12's in my hands that made me think I could turn into one.....

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Greg Ballantyne

I haven't really tried any of the upper end boutique or custom 12 strings, but I've always thought of Taylor 12 strings as 12 strings that play like 6 string guitars. I'm not a 12 string sort of fellow, but I've had a few Taylor 12's in my hands that made me think I could turn into one.....

Taylor does make some of the most user friendly 12 strings out there, certainly they're the easiest to play that I have any experience with, and I always try out nicer 12s when I see 'em, even if they're not Taylors.

It was the "near six string playability" of the Taylor 562ce that finally pushed me over from "12 string curious" to 12 string owner. But there's more than just Taylor's easy playing neck going on with this guitar. The combination of 12 strings and 12 frets on a Grand Concert body really work wonders on making it something you can fall in love with. And with the dark finished shaded edge solid mahogany top, back and sides, it looks and sounds wonderful.

[FrankHudson]

Looks very much like a 1970s Cortez 12 String I have.

The zero fret system your guitar has should remove one of the issues with 12 string playablity: action too high at the nut. One could tune down a 1/2 step or a whole step as well.

[L20A]

If you want that 12 string to really wake up, remove the adjustable saddle and install a new bone saddle.

I have seen this done on a few old Gibson guitars with remarkable improvement.

[patchmcg]

My two Ovation 12'ers are easier to play than most 6-strings I've picked up. I dunno how they do it!

[Silly Moustache]

Most old 12 strings develop a bow in the neck , need resets ad set-ups etc., because the tend to be neglected more than sixes.

I've recently bought a '60s Harmony 12 which I've fallen in love with, but my rebuilt '64 Martin d12-20 is refined and wonderful and easier to play than my sixes.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Most old 12 strings develop a bow in the neck , need resets ad set-ups etc., because the tend to be neglected more than sixes.

I've recently bought a '60s Harmony 12 which I've fallen in love with, but my rebuilt '64 Martin d12-20 is refined and wonderful and easier to play than my sixes.

Bwahaha. When I stumbled across my pre-War Regal 12 in a trash can the neck was so loose I was able to pop it off with my thumbs.

But it had less to do with taking care of the guitars as their design. The first Gibson B45-12s, as example, had the same bracing as their six string counterparts. While this was great for sound it was not the best thing for survival as the guitars could literally twist themselves apart. Gibson responded in late 1964 by seriously beefing up the bracing.

And I can assure you that having owned Harmony 1270s, they are a whole lot easier to negotiate than many much older 12 strings. Often lacking any kind of neck reinforcement, these things tend to have the fattest necks in the known guitar universe.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

Looks very much like a 1970s Cortez 12 String I have.



The zero fret system your guitar has should remove one of the issues with 12 string playablity: action too high at the nut. One could tune down a 1/2 step or a whole step as well.

I remember a thread here about zero fret which is something I’ve never heard of, just to find out a few days later I had a zero fret guitar! This guitar could very much be a “lawsuit era” guitar because in the sound hole sticker it says designed in the USA made in Japan and some quick research indicates that Ventura made good instruments based on popular brand designs. This guitar has a solid spruce top and rosewood sides (not sure if solid) and seems very well made. I guess that was typical in Japanese made lawsuit era guitars.

I was thinking tuning down half a step just to see if that neck bow relaxes a little. Took me an hour to string and tune this thing, and it was nerve wracking, especially when tuning that high G string.

Originally Posted by L20A

If you want that 12 string to really wake up, remove the adjustable saddle and install a new bone saddle.



I have seen this done on a few old Gibson guitars with remarkable improvement.

I do think this guitar would definitely benefit from a saddle upgrade, I just don’t know how I would fully eliminate the adjustable saddle without a full bridge replacement.

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Most old 12 strings develop a bow in the neck , need resets ad set-ups etc., because the tend to be neglected more than sixes.



I've recently bought a '60s Harmony 12 which I've fallen in love with, but my rebuilt '64 Martin d12-20 is refined and wonderful and easier to play than my sixes.

Yeah I believe this guitar could use not just a reset, but fret crowning and pretty much a professional setup.

[Brucebubs]

It's a very clean guitar for it's age.
Looks like it was treated well.
I wouldn't use 80/20's on it ... but that's just me.
Prefer the warmer sound of PB's tuned down a 1/2 step.
I would also look at the idea of removing that tone robbing adjustable saddle height mechanism and replacing it with a drop in rosewood 'insert' with a bone saddle - seen it done by others on the forum.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

It's a very clean guitar for it's age.
Looks like it was treated well.
I wouldn't use 80/20's on it ... but that's just me.
Prefer the warmer sound of PB's tuned down a 1/2 step.
I would also look at the idea of removing that tone robbing adjustable saddle height mechanism and replacing it with a drop in rosewood 'insert' with a bone saddle - seen it done by others on the forum.

Ok now I’m really curious about this. I did notice that the bridge is bolt-on instead of glued so changing the bridge shouldn’t be that big of a deal. But what you’re talking about is that there’s an actual insert I can drop in there with a bone saddle? I’d love to find something like that at my local guitar store!

And yeah this guitar was treated well, a bit of research puts this guitar closer to 1970 than 1975, perhaps even late 60’s. Apparently Gibson went quite hard against these guys, and I can see why judging on how this guitar has passed the test of time.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

Ok now I’m really curious about this. I did notice that the bridge is bolt-on instead of glued so changing the bridge shouldn’t be that big of a deal. But what you’re talking about is that there’s an actual insert I can drop in there with a bone saddle? I’d love to find something like that at my local guitar store!

And yeah this guitar was treated well, a bit of research puts this guitar closer to 1970 than 1975, perhaps even late 60’s. Apparently Gibson went quite hard against these guys, and I can see why judging on how this guitar has passed the test of time.

I had to do a search but I found a thread with a good picture of a drop-in type conversion.
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...dle+conversion

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I had to do a search but I found a thread with a good picture of a drop-in type conversion.
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...dle+conversion

Wow that’s nice. I’m fresh out of ebony and skills to carve my own bridge though. [emoji23]

[AndrewG]

My old 1960s Eko Ranger XII had both a zero fret and an adjustable bridge, and the action was really simple to get low and fast. Sounded ok too for a guitar built like an M1A1.

[Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Sounded ok too for a guitar built like an M1A1.

Speaking of military grade 12 strings, I played a 1960's Framus 12 string "Texan" at the local GC last night.
I remember my eldest brother bringing one of these laminated neck monstrosities home with him when I was a kid. It was certainly built like a tank.

They have it listed!