Difference between a cheap and a good guitar?

[jwenting]

Originally Posted by BHulkster

Really? So if I buy a guitar online from one our AGF sponsors, like Jim at GuitarRodeo.com who usually gives a way better price than the store, I'd be:

- stealing?
- dishonest?
- a leach in my economy?

Hmmmmmm.....

Some strong words there buddy

If you did like the guy suggested and used local stores to find what you want only to then go online and buy it, yes.

Ever wondered why ever more small stores disappear? That's the reason.
People use them to select products, go through the entire pre-sales process, getting advice and trying things out, only to then go online and get it $10 cheaper from some warehouse.
And when they need warranty service, it's off to that small store that never got a cent out of them but did get to spend an lot of time and money on them, a store that now has to pay for shipping something not purchased there to the manufacturer and spend more time and effort dealing with the trouble ticket.

And when that store goes out of business because they're not selling anything due to such practices, it's people like that who abuse those stores in the first place who complain most.

[BHulkster]

Originally Posted by jwenting

If you did like the guy suggested and used local stores to find what you want only to then go online and buy it, yes.

Ever wondered why ever more small stores disappear? That's the reason.
People use them to select products, go through the entire pre-sales process, getting advice and trying things out, only to then go online and get it $10 cheaper from some warehouse.
And when they need warranty service, it's off to that small store that never got a cent out of them but did get to spend an lot of time and money on them, a store that now has to pay for shipping something not purchased there to the manufacturer and spend more time and effort dealing with the trouble ticket.

And when that store goes out of business because they're not selling anything due to such practices, it's people like that who abuse those stores in the first place who complain most.

Maybe the difference is you're thinking of smaller mom and pop shops and I'm thinking of Guitar Center? If yes, then I can agree - support the locals if you can. But if not, your argument is a pretty big generalization and is full of holes. I'm hoping it's not the latter

[Jeff M]

I will buy "on line", but from just a few select stores that I know actually open the box the guitar comes in, go over it, play it, give me a good review of what they have on hand, and do a good set up before sending it out to me.
Places like Gryphon, Cotten Music, Schoenbergs, My Favorite Guitar, and several more.

I avoid the "big on line" music dealers like Musicians Friend when it comes to instruments.
I want to deal with somebody who is actually knowledgeable about guitars and actually took it out of the box.

[jwenting]

Originally Posted by BHulkster

Maybe the difference is you're thinking of smaller mom and pop shops and I'm thinking of Guitar Center? If yes, then I can agree - support the locals if you can. But if not, your argument is a pretty big generalization and is full of holes. I'm hoping it's not the latter

So big stores don't suffer financially when people have them spend time and effort to get them goods to try that those people have no interest in buying there?

[Ryler]

I'm okay with anyone's choice to shop wherever someone can fill their needs. Honestly, not all Mom and Pop shops are great. In my town they offer crap for selection and crap for service. Gotta do some driving to find either of the above. Also, I think that the more money you have personally, the more pertinent the question of "Who would I like to support?" becomes. When finances are low, then price weighs quite heavily in decision making, moreso than the loftier question of "how am I affecting the local economy?" There is nothing immoral about finding the vendor who best meets your needs, even if that vendor is not local and not small. Sometimes the overriding need is price.

I respect anyone's decision to support small shops, and if you have some in your area that offer exceptional service, it can be quite wise; but I also respect much of the rationale that has people do otherwise.

[muonlepton]

Argh.. I went to guitar center today and checked out plenty of guitars. However, the model I had in mind wasn't there... I was really looking forward to try out the "Martin DXK2 Koa" and "Epiphone Masterbilt AJ500M". Though they simply weren't available. I tried the higher end ones (the ones around $1k) and really liked one by Takamine (the price tag definitely had something to do with it ). I'm kinda bummed that they didn't have most of the stuffs from my shortlist (and its looks like chances are, I wouldn't be able to find a store < 50 miles that has them).

I'm the kind of guy that do days of research on a product before any serious decision is made. Should I just give up and really just sort of close my eyes, pick up a random guitar from a store that feels good and buy it (within good price range of course)?

[RussL30]

I say do whatever you think will get you the best guitar for your budget. If one of the local stores don't have it, then research what you think will suit your needs and buy it from a reputable online dealer or from the AGF classifieds. I buy almost all of my guitars local, but I did aquire my 710 in a trade on this forum and I've been happy woth it. Some people here tend to look down on people who don't do things the way they do. The end result should be getting a great guitar that is a joy to play.

[BHulkster]

Originally Posted by jwenting

So big stores don't suffer financially when people have them spend time and effort to get them goods to try that those people have no interest in buying there?

Where someone decides to spend their hard earned money is their business and I think to say some of the things you have said is a bit offensive to people who choose to do different from what you prefer - myself included.

But I can see where coming into a mom-and-pops store knowing that you're just demoing some guitars and not going to buy anything can be a slap in the face. But I'm amazed that you're condemning other people for not supporting the "big chains" - kind of backwards IMO. Bigger chains vs. small stores are two different things and some online stores are owned by mom-and-pop style owners. Elderly, GuitarRodeo.com, GuitaGoods.com - all owned by a small concentration of people who offer premium services and charge very little compared to the big guys. These online stores have people behind them too you know, they're not run by machines lol.

[Smack]

Originally Posted by jwenting

you'd be stealing from that store. You'd be using them as a showroom for a website, which is dishonest and leads to stores going out of business and others banning customers from trying the goods.

You're forcing that store to spend a lot of money while knowing in advance you're not going to buy there.

You'd be a leech on your local economy.

Ridiculous.

[jwenting]

Originally Posted by BHulkster

Where someone decides to spend their hard earned money is their business and I think to say some of the things you have said is a bit offensive to people who choose to do different from what you prefer - myself included.

I couldn't care less where you spend your money, but I do care about knowingly depriving others of income while making them spend money on you.

But I can see where coming into a mom-and-pops store knowing that you're just demoing some guitars and not going to buy anything can be a slap in the face. But I'm amazed that you're condemning other people for not supporting the "big chains" - kind of backwards IMO. Bigger chains vs. small stores are two different things and some online stores are owned by mom-and-pop style owners. Elderly, GuitarRodeo.com, GuitaGoods.com - all owned by a small concentration of people who offer premium services and charge very little compared to the big guys. These online stores have people behind them too you know, they're not run by machines lol.

Again, where's the difference? I don't care if a store sells 100 guitars a year or 1000 a day. The principle remains the same.
Do remember that most of those "big chains" run on a concession model. The individual stores are owned by the local manager who pays the chain a percentage in exchange for advertising and centralised warehousing.

I see it time and again. First people kill off the local small stores by buying in chain stores, then complain that the local stores are gone or reduce their service.
And finally they go and kill of the consessions of those chains in their area by buying online, and complain about those concessions being gone as well and there being nowhere to try out things before buying them and having to send things via courier to the other end of the country if they need repairs.

[zb0430]

Originally Posted by jwenting

I couldn't care less where you spend your money, but I do care about knowingly depriving others of income while making them spend money on you.


Again, where's the difference? I don't care if a store sells 100 guitars a year or 1000 a day. The principle remains the same.
Do remember that most of those "big chains" run on a concession model. The individual stores are owned by the local manager who pays the chain a percentage in exchange for advertising and centralised warehousing.

I see it time and again. First people kill off the local small stores by buying in chain stores, then complain that the local stores are gone or reduce their service.
And finally they go and kill of the consessions of those chains in their area by buying online, and complain about those concessions being gone as well and there being nowhere to try out things before buying them and having to send things via courier to the other end of the country if they need repairs.

Your stance on this, first of all, is offensive and ridiculous to the vast majority of people who read this, and secondly, obviously doesn't pertain to the discussion of finding this gentleman a guitar in his price range, given that he doesn't share your views either. Have you ever glanced at ANY item in ANY store in which you had NO intention of purchasing? Thought so...

This is capitalism, in America, no less. The company with the best utlity to the customer wins. You get the glory of weighing prices, and the utils that come from that purchase, such as peace of mind and reputation. If the majority of people are concerned with price, then yes, the slightly more expensive stores will fail. Welcome to the economy. There will always, however, be small chains in existence, because people derive utility from different aspects of purchasing a product, much as you differ from the OP.

If bottom line is your concern, looking in stores and trying guitars, yet buying online for less is the way to go. If stores can't compete, price-wise, then they won't get those customers concerned with price. That's been the way capitalism works for a few years, now...

If peace of mind and the ability to hand pick a guitar is your thing, then local shops it is. They serve another section of the consumer base, concerned with support and peace of mind. They have the golden rule of guitar buying on their side: not all guitars of the same make and model will sound exactly the same. There is always a fraction of variability, so play before you buy.

These are decisions that are up to the OP in his quest. What is more important to him, is solely his decision, and I don't personally think he should be called a leech in the process of deciding, much less

I'm very sorry for the rude introduction here at the AGF! You're more than welcome here, and there are many that are willing and able to advise you in this process. Enjoy the journey!

[BHulkster]

Originally Posted by jwenting

I couldn't care less where you spend your money, but I do care about knowingly depriving others of income while making them spend money on you.


Again, where's the difference? I don't care if a store sells 100 guitars a year or 1000 a day. The principle remains the same.
Do remember that most of those "big chains" run on a concession model. The individual stores are owned by the local manager who pays the chain a percentage in exchange for advertising and centralised warehousing.

I see it time and again. First people kill off the local small stores by buying in chain stores, then complain that the local stores are gone or reduce their service.
And finally they go and kill of the consessions of those chains in their area by buying online, and complain about those concessions being gone as well and there being nowhere to try out things before buying them and having to send things via courier to the other end of the country if they need repairs.

Give it a rest....seriously