The wiping varnish thread

[SnowManSnow]

I wanted to start a new thread for this instead of continuing this on my build thread because it may be easier for another new builder to locate.

I'm at the point where most everything is built. All I need to do now is chose a finish and go with it.

I'm strongly considering wiping on a varnish because my shop is COLD right now, and I can do a WOV (wipe on varnish) inside w ventilation.

So.... Now to the actual product. What would you guys recommend? Is there anything I can pickup at an Ace or HD or Lowes?
Can I get a good gloss out of a WOV or will it need to be satin?

Thanks for any advice / shared experience.
B


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[SnowManSnow]

Or perhaps it's a wipe on lacquer I'm looking for?


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[mirwa]

You can get wipe on polys,

I use this when teaching guitar building courses, as its something they can do at home with no safety gear needed and still get a mirror finish.

Steve

[Bruce Sexauer]

Traditionally, oil varnish is brushed. It's low tech and fairly challenging to do great work, but that last is true with every finish I've tried. Ace product #276A works great with a decent brush. For a guitar, a 1 1/2" medium soft Boar natural bristle will do the job. It dries hard enough to hold a great gloss, I've been using it for many years. I have no knowledge re WOV, but thought I'd butt in anyway.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Traditionally, oil varnish is brushed. It's low tech and fairly challenging to do great work, but that last is true with every finish I've tried. Ace product #276A works great with a decent brush. For a guitar, a 1 1/2" medium soft Boar natural bristle will do the job. It dries hard enough to hold a great gloss, I've been using it for many years. I have no knowledge re WOV, but thought I'd butt in anyway.

Bruce , yes that's what I'm trying to find. You forget that I'm so new to this that I often am not even sure what question to ask in what way ha.
Thank you for your input


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[SnowManSnow]

I'm not sure what #276A actually is. The webpage won't search by item number


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[fazool]

Not on a guitar but on a similar project I used "wipe on poly" and it surprised me at how good it came out. It self-levels very effectively.

What I did while nitro-cellulose finishing during the colder months is I set up a spot with a space heater in my garage to spray, then a place in my basement to dry (surrounded by plastic tarps to minimize dust in and stink out).

Then I would take my project outside, spray it and bring it back and hang it inside to dry.

It was surprisingly not too offensive. Most of the smell doesn;t come from curing and outgassing but from the spray in the air.

[Sam VanLaningham]

I follow bruces finishing schedule, generally (thanks Bruce!!!!), and have found the ace 276a stocked at both aces where I live. It's full name is ace solvent-based varnish (clear gloss). Full product number is 276A111. You may have to ask your local ace to order it. While your at it, I'd recommend the pore filler/sanding sealer that Bruce uses as well, Zinsser bulls eye sealcoat universal sanding sealer. It is 100% wax free shellac, rumored to be a 2 lb cut+additives to make it dry faster etc. It works awesome.

Varnish finishes can easily show witness lines. Two things help reduce them: dry sand between coats and add 8% acetone to the varnish (Bruce and Laurent brondel etc go this route).

Another varnish route is using epifanes varnish, accelerator and thinner (all available on amazon). This is what Laurent uses. I've used it too and I "think" but am not sure that the epifanes leads to a bit harder finish than the ace.

You can brush on, roll on with a mini roller etc. Some worry that the foam will get eaten by acetone in varnish but I haven't seen evidence for that. Anyways, avoid drips at all costs since varnish isn't very forgiving coat to coat.


Sam

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

I'm not sure what #276A actually is. The webpage won't search by item number


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[SnowManSnow]

http://m.acehardware.com/product/ind...uctId=12664447

I still can't find the particular item number.... But this is the name


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[capohk]

Some more related content in this thread

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=441996

[Sperry]

Last spring I spent a lot of time with spirit-based varnish and pigments. Ver'difficult. From what I read, people spend years practicing this craft.

My takeaway of spirit-based varnish (which is not your product, BTW), you have to work very fast. I'd have Errol Garner on the CD player, with his fast piano playing, to keep me moving fast. The other takeaway? Thin the product. Since it was spirit-based, you'd use denatured alcohol.

The solvent-based varnish you have linked is supposed to be far more forgiving. I'd still put a little in a cup, thin it with white spirits, and practice a bit.

I'll use 2 oz condiment cups for dipping into a can of product, and mix the product in a 6 oz paper cup, sometimes cut-down. (This is where I'd add pigment).

Adding thinner, I'd first pour some thinner into a 6 oz cup; I'd try to decant the amount I estimated I'd be adding to my product. As in restaurants, it is all about portion control. Trying to add thinner from a can, into a Dixie cup with 2 oz of varnish in it, just does not work.

I'd thin about 25% for main coats and 50% for a final coat, but that is with spirit varnish, not solvent-based.

A very successful guitar builder acquaintance told me last year she uses varnish from Ace, and brushes it on right from the can. Hard to believe, on a $5,000 guitar, but I kept my mouth shut.

[charles Tauber]

Other options might include brushing on Target's waterbased EM6000 - Ned does that with good success - and Royal Lac, a proprietary shellac-based finish that a number of have used successfully as a French polish. The Royal Lac would be "easy" to brush on. Both will require pore filling - usually additional products for that.

[hat]

Originally Posted by fazool

Not on a guitar but on a similar project I used "wipe on poly" and it surprised me at how good it came out. It self-levels very effectively.

What I did while nitro-cellulose finishing during the colder months is I set up a spot with a space heater in my garage to spray, then a place in my basement to dry (surrounded by plastic tarps to minimize dust in and stink out).

Then I would take my project outside, spray it and bring it back and hang it inside to dry.

It was surprisingly not too offensive. Most of the smell doesn;t come from curing and outgassing but from the spray in the air.

If you do this with rattle can lacquer, be sure the keep the cans inside where it's warm. It won't spray well out of a cold can. Oh, and if you are using an open flame type of heat source - shut it off prior to spraying! A lacquer flash fire isn't much fun.

[redir]

I don't know if it's a good idea to apply any type of finish if it's "COLD."

Shellac is about the safest option as far as working indoors. The varnish I have used, as mentioned in the thread capohk linked to is the Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Varnish. Dilute with a little mineral spirits and it brushed on really well. It looks real good too, I'll use it again some day I'm sure.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by hat

Oh, and if you are using an open flame type of heat source - shut it off prior to spraying! A lacquer flash fire isn't much fun.

That includes pilot lights, such as on water heaters and/or furnaces. There is a celebrated case in Canadian engineering law courses about a mechanical engineer who blew himself up refinishing a basement floor with the pilot light of a water heater in an adjacent room. He won the law suit against the manufacturer because the label of the finishing product did not explicitly state to extinguish all pilot lights - stating not to use it near sources of open flames was not sufficiently explicit.