What is adirondack?

[LSemmens]

I've not come across adirondack as a timber and can only find, using mr Google, reference to it as a region, not so as a tonewood, or any wood for that fact. So, in my search for ejumukashun, what actually is adirondack?

[iim7V7IM7]

Red Spruce (Picea rubens).

Originally Posted by LSemmens

I've not come across adirondack as a timber and can only find, using mr Google, reference to it as a region, not so as a tonewood, or any wood for that fact. So, in my search for ejumukashun, what actually is adirondack?

[Silly Moustache]

Hi, Adirondack spruce is red spruce, but not allred spruce is adirondack.

It grows from Nova Scotia, down as far as Eastern Canada down as far as Eastern North Carolina.

At one time (last century, there was an easily available abundance of it growing in the Adirondacks area in the Upper New York state, and so the industry there used it for many purposes (including ship and aircraft building, and it has qualities which made it suitable for musical instrument tops.

There is much written about the various spruces, much edifying and ther is also a lot of nonsense.

It tends to attract an upcharge as mature trees are increasingly difficult to find.

In Europe, "European spruce", has been used for most classical violin family instruments for many hundreds of years. Wherever in Europe it comes from it is the same species. It is often wrongly called "German" and in fact whilst there are forests of spruce in Germany, this is rarely harvested, and the term refers to the ports where much European spruce is shipped from.
It grows from Norway to Russia, and from Finland down to France and Greece.

Nowadays the most commonly used spruce for guitars is Sitka (Picea Stichensis) which grows all along the North American western seaboard.

It is a larger tree and so more easy to obtain suitable timber for guitar tops.
It is plentiful, and so regarded as "standard" but is not a second class tonewood.

Spruce grows all over the northern hemisphere and there are many species that may, in fact be the same as others.
I hope this gives you a grounding in the stuff out of which they make guitar tops - and fence posts, and toilet paper!

[John Arnold]

It grows from Nova Scotia, down as far as Eastern Canada down as far as Eastern North Carolina.

Western NC, not Eastern (Appalachian Mountains). The further South you go, the higher the elevation where red spruce grows. Here in the South, red spruce rarely grows below 4500 feet elevation. In TN and NC, the climate at 5000 feet is similar to the climate at sea level in Nova Scotia. Red spruce favors colder climates, where the summer temperature rarely exceeds 75 degrees.

Adirondack spruce is a common name for the wood from a red spruce tree. Sitka spruce is the name of the tree, not Pacific Coast spruce. Engelmann spruce is the name of the tree, not Rocky Mountain spruce. Red spruce is the name of the tree.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Western NC, not Eastern (Appalachian Mountains). The further South you go, the higher the elevation where red spruce grows. Here in the South, red spruce rarely grows below 4500 feet elevation. In TN and NC, the climate at 5000 feet is similar to the climate at sea level in Nova Scotia. Red spruce favors colder climates, where the summer temperature rarely exceeds 75 degrees.

Adirondack spruce is a common name for the wood from a red spruce tree. Sitka spruce is the name of the tree, not Pacific Coast spruce. Engelmann spruce is the name of the tree, not Rocky Mountain spruce. Red spruce is the name of the tree.

not to steal a thread, but where down south are you? I'm in Ga

[Frank Ford]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Red spruce is the name of the tree.

Indeed it is, and ol' Red really gets his bark up if you call him "Adi". . .

[Alan Carruth]

One story I heard was that Martin used to source their Red spruce from various places, and had different names for it depending on where it came from. Thus 'Adirondack' spruce came from up state NY, while 'Appalachian' spruce came from further south.

Red spruce is a common species here in Hew Hampshire, where I live. I've seen pictures of the logging days in the White Mountains showing stands of Red spruce that were 5 feet in breast height diameter and 50 feet to the first branch. Much of that burned around 1910, when poor logging practices and drought caused huge fires. White pine was the prized wood, but much of the Red spruce that was harvested here went for framing lumber. I've gotten some very nice Red spruce from old buildings in the Boston area, and salvaged some timbers from a covered bridge that were cut on Mt. Ascutney in 1869. Nice wood.

Spruce was widely used in aircraft construction until relatively recently. Large, clear Red spruce was starting to become scarce by the 1930s, and with war on the horizon the government went looking for a substitute. They found it in Sitka spruce. It was actually the government that set up much of the infrastructure for harvesting Sitka spruce, so I've been told.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

One story I heard was that Martin used to source their Red spruce from various places, and had different names for it depending on where it came from. Thus 'Adirondack' spruce came from up state NY, while 'Appalachian' spruce came from further south.

Red spruce is a common species here in Hew Hampshire, where I live. I've seen pictures of the logging days in the White Mountains showing stands of Red spruce that were 5 feet in breast height diameter and 50 feet to the first branch. Much of that burned around 1910, when poor logging practices and drought caused huge fires. White pine was the prized wood, but much of the Red spruce that was harvested here went for framing lumber. I've gotten some very nice Red spruce from old buildings in the Boston area, and salvaged some timbers from a covered bridge that were cut on Mt. Ascutney in 1869. Nice wood.

Spruce was widely used in aircraft construction until relatively recently. Large, clear Red spruce was starting to become scarce by the 1930s, and with war on the horizon the government went looking for a substitute. They found it in Sitka spruce. It was actually the government that set up much of the infrastructure for harvesting Sitka spruce, so I've been told.

Just like a lot of BC spruce and cedar is zipped through mills and used for tasks that could easily be served by quick-growth smaller "renewable" source trees. So much wood that could have been used for more demanding tasks - not just limited to instrument building. Imagine if today's modern architects had availability of raw material such as the red spruce trees you speak of, Alan...

So many resources squandered. The Bluenose, Nova Scotia's pride and joy (and the ship on Canada's dime), used to have fantastic single tree masts, but if I remember correctly, they have laminated masts now because they can't find straight and large enough trees any more as would have been in the original. I can't remember the tree species for the mast-wood, however. I somehow remember that it was a hardwood species...

But I am rambling and digress...

[LSemmens]

Thank you for the enlightenment.

[John Arnold]

I live in East TN (Newport), about 15 miles from the Smoky Mountains. Some of the oldest red spruce trees remaining are in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
I have been cutting red spruce for instruments since 1990. From 1990 until 2002, I harvested red spruce with Ted Davis, who lived in Loudon, TN. We cut trees most every fall for 13 years, and cut somewhere around 9,000 guitar tops. Those tops went to most of the major makers, and countless individual luthiers. After Ted passed away in 2008, I thought my red spruce adventure was over. But in 2010, I met the Hampton brothers......Nathan (now 26) and Matt (now 24)....... who talked me into cutting more trees. While Ted concentrated on West Virginia red spruce (with occasional harvests in TN and Maine), the Hamptons were most interested in the higher elevation red spruce in Western NC. The best part is that the location we settled on is only about an hour's drive from us. In March of 2013, I took Nathan to see some red spruce trees I had found on private land over 20 years ago. We contacted the owners, and were able to buy two trees that summer. The next year, we cut 15 trees, and last year we cut 12.
We just began cutting on a different tract last week, and the first tree is a monster......40" across the stump and around 170 years old. We hope to cut a few bass fiddle tops from the butt section tomorrow.
The grain in this tree is mostly medium to wide....with gradually increasing width toward the outside of the tops. While we have cut tighter-grained tops, the even spacing and white color make these tops special.
I believe the red spruce from this area is some of the best I have ever seen. It is very stiff and resonant. I guess it is a result of the growth conditions....northeast facing slope, steep ground, and high elevation (5,000+ feet). Whatever the reason, I am glad I was able to be a part of the harvest.

[RichM752]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

We just began cutting on a different tract last week, and the first tree is a monster......40" across the stump and around 170 years old. We hope to cut a few bass fiddle tops from the butt section tomorrow.

This is a great thread is great. Photos of above and it's really great.