When a Carbon Fiber classical guitar ?

[gerardo1000]

John,

The MP3 sample of your Nylon sounds great !
Do you think that if the number of Blackibird guitars sold increases, you will be able to lower their price ?
Do you agree with Ellis from CA that the final retail price of a Carbon Fiber guitar is due to the production process, not to the quality of the material ?

[jluttwak]

Hi Gerardo. Unless Ellis gives me a tour of his facilities, I can't say how and what they do so I'll refrain from speculating as that clearly get us nowhere. I greatly respect Ellis's contribution to composites and guitar-making. We differ on the point that I do like these discussions I just wish I had more time for them but I spend most of my time making guitars. So when I do post I often make them long.

Blackbird does many things differently from Composite Acoustics which is reflected in the pricing. That said, they make wonderful instruments. Having different companies doing different things with carbon fiber and composites is a great thing for guitar innovation. We both use Carbon fiber but just like a Taylor is different from a Martin which is different from an inexpensive student guitar, we have very different approaches. Regarding the material and process, I will say there is certainly different grades of carbon fiber and we use aircraft grade pre-impregnated carbon fiber for our tops. Unless I get a Cargo sawed in half in the mail (a sad sight to be sure) I can't say what they do. One data point though is the range in price from the Cargo to their upper-end which suggests that there are differences. I submit that Blackbird Guitars are on the upper-end because there is no compromise in material, parts and finish.

We both use carbon fiber but for us it is a means and for them an end. It allows us to make the Blackbird guitars proprietary hollow neck and head construction which requires the highest stiffness (modulus) carbon fiber and hollow carbon tube reinforcement. The all-hollow unitary construction also makes the guitar more difficult to build and so we build them in small quantities. Blackbird Guitars is a three man show where the art of lutherie is alive and kicking and I do a great deal of the work myself. We like it this way because we have personal contact with every Blackbird owner.

We can also continue to innovate which allows us to produce two distinct models in only a few short years. Which brings me back to the Rider nylon string. It may look similar to the steel-string but it was designed from the ground up with the nylon string player in mind, so the neck, bracing, top, body, head and parts are all reinvented to get a wonderful nylon sting acoustic sound in a small body and a 25.6" (650mm) scale. We believe there are a handful of players out there who want a small body acoustic whether steel string or nylon string that is without compromise. Our use of super-premium Gilbert tuners, which are normally found on guitars costing 3X or more is one example of our approach. We one day may make more mass produced instruments with more inexpensive materials but for the time being we'd prefer to introduce new models that can benefit from our all hollow construction.

-Joe

[Supermancs]

We had a CA employee answer the question about the fabrication of our Cargos, we use innovative manufacturing techniques to produce the Cargo and be able to offer it at a very reasonable price. There is absolutely no compromise in durability. There is absolutely no compromise in tone.

[PTL]

Way to go both CA and Blackbird on innovation.

Ellis, I'd say that I've been admiring CA's innovativeness and customer service. Success is well deserved. Tell that Jay guy from Taylor to sell less guitars so that you are not so back logged. And that Steve guy....well he's just great in customer service....

As to fiberglass, no one's said anything but my guess is that it's to damp some overtones to sound more like wood?

PTL

[PTL]

jluttwak,

Just heard your classical sample. Sounds GREAT.

Question:
1. Was the recording done with pick-up or microphone?

2. How loud is it compared to a good classical guitar acoustically? I sold my Rainsong WS9000- classical because it wasn't quite that loud in acoustic mode. Plugged in, it's incredible obviously.

Thanks,
PTL

[jluttwak]

Hi PTL,

Sorry on the long delay- I was in Europe with the family. Please find the answers to your questions below.

Question:
1. Was the recording done with pick-up or microphone?
The recording was doing with a stereo mic/mp3 recorder.

2. How loud is it compared to a good classical guitar acoustically? I sold my Rainsong WS9000- classical because it wasn't quite that loud in acoustic mode. Plugged in, it's incredible obviously.

Our classical is loud acoustically (ultra-light hollow neck and head, thinnest top on the market, off-set soundhole, curveless profile etc.). This is an acoustic guitar first that happens to have a great electronics system. This is a risky approach for us given how unconventional the design is but we feel that folks will appreciate a compact; durable cannon of a nylon string. Please let me know if you have any other thoughts or questions.

Best,
Joe
Blackbirdguitars.com


Thanks,
PTL