External Preamps

cawright11 · #1 07-25-2013, 12:20 PM

So, I play in a worship band. We lead every Sunday at our church, and do a decent bit of traveling. Until recently, I've played electric due to necessity, and I must admit, I love the tone I get out of my electric rig. However, I switched to acoustic a few months ago because I took more of the "leader" role. Acoustic is really my preference to play, and always has been, I just haven't had the opportunity to play acoustic with this particular band. I play a Martin Dx-1 with an LR Baggs M80. I like the tone, but it's missing something. I've tried reverb pedals, delay pedals, delay and reverb pedals, everything I can think of...except an external preamp.

I'm really leaning toward to Baggs Venue DI or the Fishman Aura, but I'm not very educated on acoustic preamps. So, any suggestions? Pros/cons of both systems? Educate me!

CCoehick · #2 07-25-2013, 01:04 PM

The Venue will give you more versatility over the Aura. The Aura works best with UST pickups to make your amplified sound seem more natural. The Venue will give you more tone shaping ability thereby giving you more control over your sound.

The Venue is cheaper too. :-)

akafloyd · #3 07-25-2013, 04:04 PM

I have no experience with that particular pickup but I have found that magnetic pickups to be sort of one dimensional, kind of incomplete. An external preamp is only going to give you some gain, eq, and maybe some feedback resistance. I think what you'll need is another source, a microphone might be ideal if you can work with that. You should try as many things as you can get your hands on without making a financial commitment first. Can you borrow an Aura pedal? Do you have a good shop nearby that has a good selection of preamps and other accessories? In a band the subtleties can get lost in the wash, how does your guitar sound in the mix?

johnnyp · #4 07-25-2013, 04:09 PM

As a P&W guitarist who switches between electric and acoustic I would second the suggestion for either a dual source pickup like the Anthem or the K&K Pure Mini (not a dual source but I like it in my McPherson). In a live band mix I like the percussive crispness, presence and bass response of the UST, while the blended mic adds the natural airy quality.

cawright11 · #5 07-25-2013, 04:40 PM

Thanks for the suggestions! To answer some of your questions, I don't live nearby any major music stores with decent preamps in stock, which is part of the reasoning for my post. As far as the pickup itself goes, I'm fairly pleased with the sound on it. The M80 is designed to pick up the sound from the wood in the body of the guitar, giving it a very rich tone for a magnetic pickup. The reason I hesitate to put a lot more into another pickup is simply that within 5 years, I'm more than likely upgraded to a Taylor 914, or Martin D-28, something along those lines, so I don't want to put too much into this particular guitar, whereas a pre-amp is going to be universal with whatever guitar I upgrade to.

In the mix, my guitar doesn't sound bad. It sits back until instrumental breaks, or softer pieces. When it needs to be brought out, I'm running it through a Vox Time Machine stacked on a Line 6 DL4 with some reverb coming through the house sound. It really thickens up the tone and gives it that extra little bit of "umph". It's a bit bassy at times, but that's partly the eq on the board (volunteer sound guy...) and partly just the fact that my guitar naturally sounds deep and woody.

buskerjohn · #6 07-25-2013, 05:35 PM

Im sure it is a different beast than the m80, but I have an M1 that I have used in both a weissenborn and a parlor guitar.
Also I haven't used an Aura or a Venue preamp, but I do own a Radial PZ pre, a DTar solstice and a Pendulum Hz10se.

I have also used a Fishman Pro platinum , a Yamaha AG Stomp, ULtrasound, Baggs PADI.

For sheer usefulness and flexibility the PZ pre , which also sounds great is the unit I use when I am only bringing a single piece of gear. It gives you tone shaping , feedback management, the right kind of impedance input for piezo and humbucking pickups. It sounds great.It has very flexible routing options, stomp switches for mute and channel changing. About the only drawback I can see with it is it only has one eq line so if you are using dual source, or multiple instruments, there is a slight limitation. Hardly a deal breaker. Also its built like a tank.

The Dtar Solstice is also a great unit , two channel blending preamp with slightly less eq flexibility than Radial , but two seperate channels and 4 inputs each with their own level control. Might seem like over kill but if you want to run a dual source pickup and a mic for maximum detail and tonal presence you can, and I have.

The Pendulum preamps which retail a couple of grand new are the best absolutely.
I picked up my HZ 10 se which is the mono version of their current model for around 400 bucks, its awesome , 4 band parametric eq which sounds great.

The Radial and the Dtar are in the 300-400 dollar range, and I realize you are using only a single source pickup , but they in my opinion sound incredibly nice and are well worth the investment.

Hope that is helpful

chewie · #7 07-26-2013, 06:22 AM

Venue is good, with a useful mute foot switch. The LR Baggs Para DI is also really good

royd · #8 07-26-2013, 11:32 AM

Radial also markets a single channel preamp with most of the features of the pz-pre called the pz deluxe for about $100 less. If you only ever intend a single output, it would be worth a look too.

If you are looking down the pike to upgrade your guitar, anything other than a Taylor and you'll likely be adding some sort of aftermarket pickups and in that case, you may want to leave the door open to a dual source.

ljguitar · #9 07-28-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cawright11

...I'm really leaning toward to Baggs Venue DI or the Fishman Aura, but I'm not very educated on acoustic preamps. So, any suggestions? Pros/cons of both systems? Educate me!

Hi caw right...

The Aura is a modeler not a preamp.

The Venue is the best one-pedal-on-the-floor-does-it system for acoustic players. It really is a better version of Bagg's own ParaDI.

The knobs are better situated and labeled, and aimed at acoustic instrument players (they work for fiddles, and other acoustic instruments as well).

Quick & easy to setup and simple to use.

Doug Young · #10 07-29-2013, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi caw right...

The Aura is a modeler not a preamp.

You'd have to know what "aura" we're talking about, there have been quite a few different versions. For example, the Aura Spectrum DI is pretty much like most external preamps these days - gain, EQ, mute switch, tuner, DI out, etc. Plus the modeling. I'd agree that the main reason to choose it would be if you wanted the modeling, otherwise you're paying for a major element that you aren't using, but I'd certainly consider it a preamp as well as a modeler.

Vancebo · #11 07-29-2013, 11:38 PM

Lots of good advice on the forum as usual. I am a worship leader with volunteer sound guys too. A couple of really good ones and a couple of "let's just get through today" type of guys. Bless their heart.

I currently run a Taylor GS equipped with a Baggs Lyric through a Venue then to the board. I dial in the sound I like as it comes through the monitor. I really have no idea what I sound like in the mains. When my good sound guys are mixing down, they aren't really thinking, "Hey. let's get the best acoustic guitar sound I can get. No, It's usually lets cut most of the low end and get presence and shimmer so it can cut through the mix. I get that. We have had many discussions on the subject and we decided to compromise and now they are able to set the acoustic guitar channel at the board flat and I use the Venue to dial in a nice bright acoustic tone that is to my liking. They have not had to make adjustments at the board which they have freedom to do if they need to. As far as I am concerned I am as happy as I ever have been.

You mentioned low end feedback. That should be dialed out either by you or at the board. The Venue gives you an amazing flexibility and a notch filter to boot. I never have feedback problems and I am using in essence a microphone only. I have always used an internal mic of some kind in some sort of dual sourced configuration. There are systems out there that combine them for you. As long as you are staying with a mono cable the Venue is awesome.

IMO, I recommend doing away with all the other things in your chain and learn to use good eq. On acoustic guitar there really is something always going to be missing unless you mic it or use a lot of expensive gear (which I have done in the past). My current set up is simple and very satisfying.

myersbw · #12 07-30-2013, 09:13 PM

You might also try doing away with the traditional monitor (I'm assuming traditional...?) and do a Bose L1 style -or- make your own clone of it. (I did it...it's not that hard) That let's YOU dial in what you want yourself AND the audience to hear. I get the volunteer sound folks...we do the same in church. This lets you control what's pushed. And, you sound as particular as I am about tone. (Might just be a crappy monitor system...?...in regards to acoustic guitar)

Sure, the pickup system plays a huge role, but I definitely love the way that an L1 or Fishman system puts more tonal control & consistency into your hands. Then get to the church when no one is there and work on some options. I used a Yamaha Magicstomp AGII for a bit. It was nice and clean, but there was no substitute for spending time...marking settings...(I have a channel for me designated)...and getting a few critical people I trust listening to the mains out.

All the best!
BradM

Altcountry · #13 07-31-2013, 10:00 PM

For a nice mag sound hole pickup, I really love what a tube preamp will do for it. Fat punch, definition, sparkle, organic tone. Surprisingly I have had good results with the $130 presonus tube pre, but also the very expensive Demeter tube di. I like the baggs para and venue ( love the the boost and tuner on the venue) but it takes a lot of eq fuss to get close to fat tube punch and organic presence, and even then, I never find it to be the same. Give one a try, I think it's reallly the killer combo. I use a demeter tube di and a buffer box with my sunrise and its, well, holy grail! Truthfully, I think the Demeter is overkill for live sound but I got it for dirt cheap so I use it and love it.

cawright11 · #14 08-01-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altcountry

For a nice mag sound hole pickup, I really love what a tube preamp will do for it. Fat punch, definition, sparkle, organic tone. Surprisingly I have had good results with the $130 presonus tube pre, but also the very expensive Demeter tube di. I like the baggs para and venue ( love the the boost and tuner on the venue) but it takes a lot of eq fuss to get close to fat tube punch and organic presence, and even then, I never find it to be the same. Give one a try, I think it's reallly the killer combo. I use a demeter tube di and a buffer box with my sunrise and its, well, holy grail! Truthfully, I think the Demeter is overkill for live sound but I got it for dirt cheap so I use it and love it.

So here's what I want to run with my acoustic (yes I'm using effects pedals.): Boss DD20, Line 6 DL4, Boss TU-2, Holy Grail Reverb.

So if I'm using a tube pre, where would I put that in the signal chain? Last, first? Also, what would it look like to run the tube pre with the Venue?

Altcountry · #15 08-02-2013, 07:24 AM

I'm unsure but I was told conventional wisdom is to have preamp first in chain, but with your effects pedals, I am unsure. DI's/preamps also function to preserve tone in long cable runs and elaborate effects chains so, perhaps first again. To me it would seem overkill to go tube pre then another preamp. One or the other, just me. Venue seems more practical to your situation.