Carbon Fiber Guitar Sub Forum

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by itself

I am wondering if there is enough interest to create a CF guitar sub forum. There have been significant improvements in sound in carbon fiber guitars and I think they have earned their way.

What do you folks think?

I've got to say there is obviously an interest but hard to justify bumping it up at the expense of the Taylor forum. On the other hand I'm a Taylor owner and not a CF player, but still, if you're going to do this then we should have a metal resonator forum, a plastic guitar forum (Maccaferri!) and so on...

[dkoloff]

Originally Posted by kramster

I might just be interested as I have some interest in CF guitars.

The only thing you have not gone to carbon in at this point is probably your dog.......

[mchalebk]

Originally Posted by devellis

I think a separate forum would reduce exposure to the topic. Those who are already owners or have decided to become owners of CF guitars will frequent it. I wouldn't rule out a CF guitar purchase but I doubt I'd be motivated to visit that sub-forum. If I wanted advice, I'd want it from the broadest representation of players, not just those who've decided that CF is for them. There tends to be sort of an in-group loyalty among people who all play a common type of instrument. That can be fun and those folks can be an excellent source of some types of information but there may be a positive bias, with social pressure not to knock the type of instrument that is the glue of the group.

I have belonged to a couple or four other forums that are brand specific. When you first get an instrument, it's nice to have kindred spirits who share your enthusiasm for that brand. Personally, I find those forums to be a bit biased toward their "home brands" and I tend not to visit them nearly as often as I do this eclectic forum. If I want my purchase decision reinforced, those forums are great. If I want a range of opinions that I can mull over and evaluate, not so much. I think a carbon fiber sub-forum would similarly become a place where those already fans of carbon fiber guitars would congregate but, in the process, reduce exposure of those guitars among the wider audience of players and owners.

Just my view, of course. I'm not the one paying the rent here and I'm happy to go along with whatever decisions "management" makes. But if I were selling carbon fiber guitars, I'd prefer the wider audience of the general forum, with all its potential new customers, to the narrower sub-forum whose members already have what I'm offering.

I agree. I really think it will do a disservice to the CF guitar niche. Carbon fiber guitars are still guitars and should, in my opinion, be covered in the General Acoustic Guitar forum. By creating a separate sub-forum, the average acoustic guitarist will lose insight into an area that might interest them at some time in the future. Plus, the CF folks will lose some of the insight of the general guitar playing public.

If we’re worried about how active this forum is and how quickly a topic can be moved off the front page, there are many other types of topics that could be moved to other sub-forums. In particular, I really wish topics dealing with artists and guitarists would be moved. If we don’t creat a new sub-forum, perhaps these could be moved to the Play forum. Here are a few right now on the first 3 pages that should (IMO) be moved to a different sub-forum:

Jimmy Page's acoustic work…
Who are your favourite blues guitarists? (Acoustic or Electric)
Whose music would you miss most if it were to vanish off the face of the earth?
Any Greg Brown fans here?
Brian May - Love of My Life (Wembley)
Jeff Beck – Greensleeves
Whiskey Before Breakfast
Little Martha - Duane Allman

To me, those threads have nothing to do with the “guitar”, but about people playing guitar. They should not (IMO) be cluttering up the main forum.

Also, here are a handful of posts from the first few pages that (IMO) belong in sub-forums:

Doing pull-of correctly? (Play)
Learning the fingerboard (Play)
Low E feedback w/ capo? (Electrified)
Do Things Get Easier As Time Progresses? (Play)
What would you do in this unusual situation .. ? (Play)
How difficult is it to get starter in luthiery? (Build and Repair)

I realize the first step is to try to get people to post in the correct forum to begin with. However, the moderators move a great number of topics. Being a little more aggressive on this front could alleviate some of the “pressure” on the main forum.

[J.R. Rogers]

I believe that CF has a legitimate and bright future in music and I'm willing to put the AGF's resources behind it. Let's give the new section a year to take off and if by 2013 the AGF's Carbon Fiber forum isn't a great resource on the Internet for CF, I'll fold the section back into the general section and we'll move along.

JR

[ac]

Fair enough. I even put a note on my 2013 calendar to help remind me.

[pandaroo]

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

I believe that CF has a legitimate and bright future in music and I'm willing to put the AGF's resources behind it. Let's give the new section a year to take off and if by 2013 the AGF's Carbon Fiber forum isn't a great resource on the Internet for CF, I'll fold the section back into the general section and we'll move along.

JR

i think this is a good idea for a trial.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by J.R. Rogers

I believe that CF has a legitimate and bright future in music and I'm willing to put the AGF's resources behind it. Let's give the new section a year to take off and if by 2013 the AGF's Carbon Fiber forum isn't a great resource on the Internet for CF, I'll fold the section back into the general section and we'll move along.

JR

A big thumbs up JR.

[andyi5]

I'd be happy about a "carbon fiber plectrums" forum, as long as the Taylor sub forum was to stick around. mchalebk was spot on in his recent post, the general forum is way too dissipated, with stuff about music tastes, technique, everything. It's like searching in a record store that doesn't categorise their music.

Quite serious about the plectrums btw, I've been using Dunlop nylon .73's or .88's for nearly 30 years, and recently discovered the new Dunlop carbon fiber maxigrips... terrific!

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by pieterh

but still, if you're going to do this then we should have a metal resonator forum, a plastic guitar forum (Maccaferri!) and so on...

I'd love a good resonator forum...but not limited to metal...I have three resonators and two are wood!

[AndyFrank]

Excellent idea, and I hope it works out.

Looking at the carbon forum I see about a dozen members that are active and really very little activity so I'm sure members of that forum might be worried that the AGF could trample them but I think there is room for both. Although they do a fine job JR is right, it is a forum run by one dealer whereas this one is open to all dealers and customers of all dealers who can freely express their opinion good or bad. I'm not suggesting that the owner over there would limit freedom of speech deliberately, but lets face it, how comfortably would you be telling everyone what a good deal you got elsewhere?

[MacNichol]

Originally Posted by AndyFrank

Although they do a fine job JR is right, it is a forum run by one dealer whereas this one is open to all dealers and customers of all dealers who can freely express their opinion good or bad. I'm not suggesting that the owner over there would limit freedom of speech deliberately, but lets face it, how comfortably would you be telling everyone what a good deal you got elsewhere?

As the owner of that store and forum, I also agree with JR. Although I welcome other dealers and their customers on my forum, the reality is that other dealers just aren't going to feel comfortable posting on another's site, and other dealers' customers are likely just not going to feel that comfortable discussing good deals that they received on another dealer's forum. As such, I think this separate sub-forum on the AGF is a great addition to an already great forum.

I think the separate sub-forum makes sense for the AGF as carbon fiber guitar enthusiasts speak a different language with the different building materials. To me, CF guitars are almost as different from wooden steel string guitars as are nylon string guitars.

Also, with the MacNichol forum, the topics are so often MacNichol store happenings - upcoming concerts and clinics, guitars currently in stock, our Road Trips, videos that we've produced, the activities of Euphony Custom Shop - rather than general CF guitar topics.

My prediction is that both forums will benefit with the addition of this separate CF sub-forum. The AGF CF forum will be a place to discuss general CF topics, and the MacNichol forum will focus more on the MacNichol-specific events.

Thanks to all for respectful and insightful discussion.

[AndyFrank]

Thanks for posting MacNichol, I can see why your members are so loyal to you.

[darylcrisp]

Originally Posted by MacNichol

As the owner of that store and forum, I also agree with JR. Although I welcome other dealers and their customers on my forum, the reality is that other dealers just aren't going to feel comfortable posting on another's site, and other dealers' customers are likely just not going to feel that comfortable discussing good deals that they received on another dealer's forum. As such, I think this separate sub-forum on the AGF is a great addition to an already great forum.

I think the separate sub-forum makes sense for the AGF as carbon fiber guitar enthusiasts speak a different language with the different building materials. To me, CF guitars are almost as different from wooden steel string guitars as are nylon string guitars.

Also, with the MacNichol forum, the topics are so often MacNichol store happenings - upcoming concerts and clinics, guitars currently in stock, our Road Trips, videos that we've produced, the activities of Euphony Custom Shop - rather than general CF guitar topics.

My prediction is that both forums will benefit with the addition of this separate CF sub-forum. The AGF CF forum will be a place to discuss general CF topics, and the MacNichol forum will focus more on the MacNichol-specific events.

Thanks to all for respectful and insightful discussion.

As always, a respectful and positive response from Michael.
d

[mchalebk]

Yes, Michael (at MacNichol) runs a very fair and open forum. He also is an outstanding retailer. And, of course, he's right: a dealer run forum will not be viewed the same as an independent forum. I feel confident that the macnichol.com forum will remain alive and strong; it's a great community there.

I do still have reservations that removing the CF topics from the main forum will prove to be a good idea. I'm concerned that we will lose the participation of non-CF guitarists. I did express my concerns to JR in a PM. I appreciate his response and agree that it's fair to give this a 1-year trial.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Well said Michael, there is certainly room for both forums.

BTW, for the record Michael was kind enough to invite me to join his forum, produced a video of our custom that I sent him for evaluation, and has even included me in a couple of his road trips proving that competition doesn't have to be war.