More Gibson financial situation news.

[StevenFord0]

It would be nice to have a CEO who comes out and says, "We really ARE a guitar company".

[rct]

Originally Posted by StevenFord0

It would be nice to have a CEO who comes out and says, "We really ARE a guitar company".

Indeed.

rct

[jessupe]

I'm pretty sure this is karma for buying up steinbergers patents and then pulling the gearless tuners off the after market shelf.

[jstroop]

Originally Posted by Pitar

http://www.hoovers.com/company-infor...356393af3.html

This income statement doesn't look like much to brag about at year end. After revenues and operating costs are tallied, Henry looks like he's operating a non-profit that's in trouble.

Cash Flow statement is even uglier.

[Pickcity]

Originally Posted by MrHooligan73

I will be that guy....

Waves good bye and wishes the new owner luck in reviving the brand......

Compete and thrive.
That's how it works.
Not sorry.

Yepp I'm THAT guy.

Agree. I have always liked Gibson guitars and don't want to see them go belly up, but they have to compete and thrive, like everyone else.

The problem is management. They need new direction and someone who can keep their eye on the ball. Henry brought them back in a big way once before, but that was 30+ years ago and he seems to have lost all sense of direction.

Gibson isn't going anywhere, but what will become of them is the real topic, IMO.

[hearsedriver]

Maybe Henry is hoping the government will bail him out like they did the big 3 auto makers!
Seriously, A buyer would assume that debt and, when the debt is nearly half of the annual revenue, There is no money to be made. I cant imagine anyone wanting to own Gibson today. I see a major liquidation in their future. They never re-opened the Nashville acoustic division after the flood becasue there was no money to be made in Banjos and Mandolins. I would imagine the same is true of their Montana division. The Les Paul keeps them afloat. Cheap and easy to build. I can see them being made in Mexico or China one day soon. I can see the Gibson brand going away in the near future too. Lots of iconic brands have dissapeared in the last 20 years. Pontiac? Oldsmobile? Zenith? Borders Books, US Airways, General Foods, just to name a few.

[Glennwillow]

Making money in a business requires constant vigilance and keeping your eye on the ball. It doesn't seem that the management at Gibson has been a particularly good steward.

It's a shame. I have a very nice ES-335, a Les Paul, and a very nice Advanced Jumbo Luthier's Choice. I will still have them if the company goes down, but it would still be a shame. But the market is not particularly sentimental. If you don't play the game effectively and show a profit and pay your bills, you go down.

- Glenn

[MrHooligan73]

I'm not anti Gibson. Not by a long shot. I won't get any satisfaction or reward if they fail.
I do hope for their sale they can restructure in a way that they don't lose everything. It has happened and is possibke. It will probably not be pretty if done correctly. However, it would save the company from complete loss.
They make some iconic and timeless instruments. Some actually great ones.
They have over the past 20 years failed to realize that they must compete to survive. A name alone is nothing and banking on a name is very poor business practices. Look at what fender has been doing while Gibson is losing. Expanding its squier lines acquiring other brands and selling all kinds of makes models and styles from vintage to shredders they own a guitar surely to fit your needs. All while keeping your custom shop alive.
Strange how proper management can think outside the box and make money.

[rwmct]

They sell millions of dollars worth of guitars every year. Their problem appears to be their debt. Best case scenario: they go into bankruptcy, somebody serious about guitar making buys the name, equipment, etc., and continues to make guitars in the USA (would love to see them make the iconic banjos and mandolins, too). They keep Epi as their entry level brand. Get rid of the extraneous stuff.

Will it happen? Who knows. But I would hate to see the brand survive as a name pasted on some imported instruments. I would rather see them disappear. They would not be Gibsons to me.

I could see them doing what Guild is doing, bringing in imports for the less expensive models, and making the more expensive guitars in the U.S. But plenty of people don't view the import Guilds as being "real Guilds." (I like the import Guilds, and think they are plenty "Guild-like" Still, when it came time to buy, I went with a used New Hartford built guitar). I think this feeling would be much more pronounced with Gibson. Gibson is an iconic U.S. guitar company. I would rather see them shrink dramatically, and still be Gibson.

Maybe some of these rich guitar playing guys could band together, buy the rights to the name and guitars in bankruptcy, and bring Gibson back! Sounds like a fantasy, I know, but these days the really rich are really, really rich. Could happen!

[rgregg48]

There was a dealer who previously sold Gibson banjos and mandolins, and moved a lot of Gibson's bluegrass instruments. Gibson came in and insisted the dealer take on the whole Gibson line, including electric guitars, all the Les Paul's and other Gibson products. The dealer who specialized in acoustics agreed and the investment pretty much put him under, since he didn't know how to Market it correctly. Don't bite the hand that feeds you especially if it's your own hand. Gibson entertain the possibility of making Gibson banjos in China, so the real Gibson's may not even be real Gibson's. So sad

[Nailpicker]

I have mixed feelings. I always feel bad when an iconic brand does itself in through mismanagement. On the other hand it happens with a degree of regularity throughout history with a variety of companies and products. I take solace in the fact that every time a company fails, another will fire up to fill the gap. After Dave's Guitars dropped or was dropped by Gibson, they've started carrying Heritage guitars of which I've heard good reviews. Made in Kalamazoo, a knock off of several Gibson models at a more competitive price. As I understand it, Heritage is in the guitar making business, not the diversified investments business.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by jstroop

Cash Flow statement is even uglier.

What is so ugly about it?

[aknow]

Seems to me that gibson's biz model is the same as america's, and most americans, leverage yourself out forever and ever with no end in sight. I've been playing Gibson electrics since 1968, still play my 1st, a 64 SG standard. Bought a 58 burst for $350 and sold for $300K, and in the last 3 years I've acquired 5 new Gibsons, some of the best sounding guitars I've played. About 8 years ago, when I noticed new LP's were $2800-$3000 I just said what are they thinking? I found that if you wait 6 mos, you can buy many of those for 1/2 price or less. I've replaced my vintage heavy weight les pauls with modern routed or hollow bodied models, cause I'm getting old. I think providing those was a good business move on their part. And incidentally, the only 2 bad acoustics I've bought unfortunately, were Gibson's.

[Mr. Jelly]

I read in the financial news yesterday that Gibson is on the ropes. My take on what "they" said is that Gibson probably doesn't have enough time to refinance. They have sold buildings to make their payments. They might make a last stand if one of the owners throws his personal money into it. If they file bankruptcy he loses his share. Something like that anyway. It didn't sound good though they believe Gibson has value.

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I read in the financial news yesterday that Gibson is on the ropes. My take on what "they" said is that Gibson probably doesn't have enough time to refinance. They have sold buildings to make their payments. They might make a last stand if one of the owners throws his personal money into it. If they file bankruptcy he loses his share. Something like that anyway. It didn't sound good though they believe Gibson has value.

I think we're on a cusp of a new chapter in the life of Gibson guitars... If that's the case it will be just another of many... It's a brand that has faced extinction several times and has always come back, not because of great management but because of this enduring love of players, workers and this symbolism behind the brand.... If anything, it's exciting times to be a Gibson fan just to see what's next.