A Question on Classical vs. Acoustic

[wdean]

Originally Posted by M19

I checked my "fact book" and came up with 95% Steel string.

Thank you!! That seems to echo what the "circumstantial" evidence would have suggested....3-10%! Not a lot.

Just about my beginner friend and his lessons. He is brand new to guitar. He has listened to me play...I have put in my 10,000 hrs but I am only a solid intermediate in playing proficiency and singing. I can play more than 3 chords....but no barre chords!, strum and a few finger picking styles. Anyway I'm the only reference he has and he says right now he wants to play as well as I do....shouldn't be too hard!!

He has explained to his teacher what he wants to do....basically for now learn the basics a few chords, basic strumming techniques, etc. His teacher thinks that starting on a classical guitar is "easier" to learn on....she thinks easier initially on the fingers (nylon) and easier to hit chords cleanly with slightly wider neck. I learned on an acoustic...I have never played a classical guitar ...but I can sort of see the logic of starting on a classical? But like I said before I don't want to but-in on his teachers method because I figure she must be successful with her method otherwise she probably wouldn't be in business?

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by wdean

A friend who is wanting to start playing guitar is trying to decide if he wants to go the classical guitar route or acoustic (steel). He understands most of the "technical" differences of the two and differences in music genre being played.

But one question he asked that he couldn't find out (and neither could I) was what percentage of "acoustic" guitar players (i.e. not electric) played classical guitar vs. acoustic (steel). My basic answer was I didn't think it was that many given when you go to a guitar store they mainly sell steel stringed. But he is one of those kind of guys that likes to know this kind of stuff.

So would anybody know what the actual statistics are of the percentage of acoustic guitar players that play classical guitar vs. acoustic (steel)?

Thanks to all you trivia and other "useless" info buffs that maybe can help!!

In order to track that number you'd have to know what every acoustic payer on earth was playing.... No one has that number. What you can do is make inferences based on data we do have and limit it to the US. Nylon string guitars are required for classical and flamingo genres and also popular in Latin music. For Pop, Country and Rock the steel string guitar is dominate with a few noted outliers (e.g. Willie Nelson, Zac Brown)

So here's a pie graph showing how genres break down

Source

How do we know this? Several decades of watching thousands of performances and paying attention to what the musicians are using. Knowing the difference in how a Nylon string and Steel string sound on recordings. Sometimes there's enough evidence you don't need the see the tallies on paper.

P.S. If you find this sort of data interesting, you may also like this
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016...ery-u-s-state/

[drplayer]

Originally Posted by wdean

A friend who is wanting to start playing guitar is trying to decide if he wants to go the classical guitar route or acoustic (steel). He understands most of the "technical" differences of the two and differences in music genre being played.

Then this is what should direct him to the type of guitar to purchase...

Originally Posted by wdean

But one question he asked that he couldn't find out (and neither could I) was what percentage of "acoustic" guitar players (i.e. not electric) played classical guitar vs. acoustic (steel).

...not this, it's irrelevant.

Originally Posted by wdean

My basic answer was I didn't think it was that many given when you go to a guitar store they mainly sell steel stringed. But he is one of those kind of guys that likes to know this kind of stuff.

So would anybody know what the actual statistics are of the percentage of acoustic guitar players that play classical guitar vs. acoustic (steel)?

Thanks to all you trivia and other "useless" info buffs that maybe can help!!

Few popular music guitarists predominantly play nylon string guitar. However, a number of others play nylon string for certain songs to give it a unique sound/feel. Eric Clapton on "Tears in Heaven" & "Change the World" would be an example that comes immediately to mind. Generally speaking though, if your friend plays mostly popular music and plans to have only one guitar (at least for now), I would direct him toward a steel string guitar.

[cmd612]

Originally Posted by wdean

He has explained to his teacher what he wants to do....basically for now learn the basics a few chords, basic strumming techniques, etc.

If he wants to learn chords and strumming, he'd probably enjoy steel-string more. He'd probably also enjoy working with a teacher who teaches in the style or styles he wants to play. The question of which is more prevalent/popular is interesting, but, as drplayer said, it's not relevant to what he'll enjoy.

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by Rmz76

So here's a pie graph showing how genres break down
Source

That is a rather odd breakdown into genres and not that relevant for guitars. I find it bizarre that the whole Folk/Traditional genre is missing which is essential for acoustic guitar and not really covered by any of the others (maybe lumped into country?). Many artists are also not easily classified, and the allocation of these pie slices seems rather arbitrary. It's also mainly a reflection of North American styles, Europe, Asia, Africa, or South America would be very different.

[wdean]

RMZ76

Thank you for this data! Like you said, this info is not perfect but I have interpreted that in NA it looks like if you take the Latin at 5% and Classical at 2%, one could infer that the number of classical guitars vs. acoustic is again 5-10% of total acoustics.

If someone had some sales stats that just be another piece of info...but again that info is probably not readily available like others have said.

[cmd612]

Originally Posted by wdean

RMZ76

Thank you for this data! Like you said, this info is not perfect but I have interpreted that in NA it looks like if you take the Latin at 5% and Classical at 2%, one could infer that the number of classical guitars vs. acoustic is again 5-10% of total acoustics.

If someone had some sales stats that just be another piece of info...but again that info is probably not readily available like others have said.

That pie chart has nothing to do with your question about acoustic guitars except to the extent they both fall under the broad category of "music."

It purportedly represents recorded music sales in the US, in all genres, regardless of whether guitars, much less acoustic guitars, are even used in that genre. If you're going to extrapolate from it what percentage of acoustic guitarists play in those genres, you'll conclude that almost a quarter of acoustic guitarists are using the instrument in hip-hop, and that as many acoustic guitarists are playing electronic dance music ("EDM") as classical and jazz combined, both of which are absurd conclusions.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by random works

There are crossover guitars, the neck and body shape can be similar to a steel sting, but they are made for nylon strings. Some are said to sound like classicals but with some characteristics of a steel string (more sparkle and overtones than a classical).

Martin, Taylor, and Takamine, among others make them. They are not at an entry level price, at least in my mind, but there are most likely other makers who are, or maybe some can be found used.

Yes, crossover is becoming more popular as an alternative for players who desire the tone of a classical instrument combined with the characteristics of a modern steel strung acoustic instrument. I have a Cordoba Orchestra Fusion, and at less than $800 I consider it within the realms price-wise of upper end of a good "beginner" instrument.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...NEwaAoPj8P8HAQ

[wdean]

Originally Posted by cmd612

If he wants to learn chords and strumming, he'd probably enjoy steel-string more. He'd probably also enjoy working with a teacher who teaches in the style or styles he wants to play. The question of which is more prevalent/popular is interesting, but, as drplayer said, it's not relevant to what he'll enjoy.

My friend is "impressed" with his potential guitar teacher because she has suggested a pathway to him more quickly and more easily learning to play guitar via classical guitar than acoustic. As I mentioned before that's not the way I learned but a few reply's to this post mentioned that is the route they went when first learning...so I assume it's a reasonable way to go?

[wdean]

Originally Posted by cmd612

If you're going to extrapolate from it what percentage of acoustic guitarists play in those genres, you'll conclude that almost a quarter of acoustic guitarists are using the instrument in hip-hop, and that as many acoustic guitarists are playing electronic dance music ("EDM") as classical and jazz combined, both of which are absurd conclusions.

Fair enough...point taken! I guess I thought the person posting this info thought it was reasonable to infer how many people might play classical guitar vs acoustic. I guess I tended to agree with them and it seemed to line up with others' opinions who replied on this. Fair enough if you thought my inference was out of whack.

[cmd612]

Originally Posted by wdean

I guess I thought the person posting this info thought it was reasonable to infer how many people might play classical guitar vs acoustic.

His post did seem to suggest that. I don't agree with him, obviously.

[Paraclete]

I started on a cheap classical guitar, learning chords and folk music. My first teacher loaned me a classical instruction book, and I taught myself to play classical style. The result is that everything else was pretty easy. Playing cleanly on a classical guitar requires more precision and technique. As you can see from my footnote list, I didn't just stick with classical guitar, but I think it would have been more difficult to start on steel and then switch to nylon.

But honestly, your friend needs to consider what kind of music, what style, appeals most. Classical is going to be a lot of discipline. And if your friend is really serious about being a well-rounded musician and not just banging out a few chords, it would be a worthwhile pursuit.

[wdean]

Originally Posted by Paraclete

I started on a cheap classical guitar, learning chords and folk music. My first teacher loaned me a classical instruction book, and I taught myself to play classical style. The result is that everything else was pretty easy. Playing cleanly on a classical guitar requires more precision and technique. As you can see from my footnote list, I didn't just stick with classical guitar, but I think it would have been more difficult to start on steel and then switch to nylon.

But honestly, your friend needs to consider what kind of music, what style, appeals most. Classical is going to be a lot of discipline. And if your friend is really serious about being a well-rounded musician and not just banging out a few chords, it would be a worthwhile pursuit.

Yes, I believe his new guitar teacher approaches it exactly the way you started. She teaches the basics of guitar playing i.e. a "D" chord is the same on a classical as on an acoustic. For pure beginners learning the basics I guess it's her belief its easier and quicker to learn on a classical guitar...as said before she rents them to her students so if they want to switch later their not out a lot of dough.

Nice to hear that this is a viable method from someone that has done it!!

Thanks!

[jed1894]

Originally Posted by wdean

Yes, I believe his new guitar teacher approaches it exactly the way you started. She teaches the basics of guitar playing i.e. a "D" chord is the same on a classical as on an acoustic. For pure beginners learning the basics I guess it's her belief its easier and quicker to learn on a classical guitar...as said before she rents them to her students so if they want to switch later their not out a lot of dough.

Nice to hear that this is a viable method from someone that has done it!!

Thanks!

I am also learning, along with my son. From a learning standpoint, the classical is easier for me. I can get chords easier and I kind of like the higher action to find them easier. Sound is different of course but I like it. Not using a pick. Just strumming with my index finger right now. Getting better with it every day. I practice about 1/2 hour with each. Having fun

[mercy]

Ive played both classical and steel, Im not buying " easier and quicker to learn on a classical guitar". A short scale steel with a wide, 1 3/4" to 1 7/8", nut will be have the benefit of the wide nut classical and the shorter scale of a steel plus get him into the sounds of popular/traditional music.