#31
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 |
#32
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It isn’t that “hospitals” are ripping people off. It is that one hospital ripped you off (and oerhaps a few others who will chime in). Join an HMO, and you will not face the specter of unnecessary care. Recognize that while some hospitals may Do things like tgisebyou have described, others do not. I have gone to emergency rooms a few times, admitted only once (after being sent home and then returning the next day with worsening symptoms), and being admitted and treated probably saved my life.
Sorry that you felt so disempowered and betrayed. And always remember: you can refuse treatment and:or request more information about the treatment being provided. None of the above is meant to imply that the current state of healthcare provision in the US is without serious problems. But I do want to say that nearly every doctor I have known, and I think every doctor who has provided treatment to me have operated in pretty honorable ways. |
#33
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In that scenario doctors won't get the training they need because compensation in a government run system won't be attractive enough to enter the profession. Malpractice insurance will be largely non-existent because trying to sue the government is a joke. So, poorly trained medical staff giving error-frequent care would be the resulting system, after the older doctors and medical pros retire, leaving no recourse to increasing the quality of healthcare in a gov't run system. As it is, the past and current 2-party lunacy can't govern its way out of a wet paper sack. Then, we'd have ambulance chasing attorneys, with their strong big pharma influences lobbying against it and wining in the political arena to save their cash cows. That's their chief source of victim-mongering and that lobby would sue the government as the new outlaw knowing that the right to a trial, much less a speedy one or even arbitration, would be good as gone for system-victimized patients with real or even attorney-fabricated conditions. Finally, the shortage of good doctors and staff would be faced with patients lined up outside the doors for their share of the freebies for every little thing mama panics over. The system, once matured as such, would impose policies where life-threatening issues get immediate care and the rest of the ailments go back to the 2-aspirin days. This would be the new "right" to free healthcare. Come to think of it, perhaps this is where we need to go. It would certainly get the blood thirsty litigation burden on insurance coverage pushed way back. Okay, I talked myself into the "right" to free medical care. |
#34
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Huh? (Unless I misunderstand what you are inferring) No they do not "work out the same " SEE post below
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 Last edited by KevWind; 11-19-2017 at 09:54 AM. |
#35
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this 2014 report categorically disproves most if not all of your statement. The US system in fact costs more for less overall quality of care than other systems
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 |
#36
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Or possibly you just failed to read your policy terms. Also, let's not forget the effect on treatment that has occurred due to the level and nature of litigation in recent decades. Sadly, we have shifted from compensating for bad practice, to compensating for bad outcomes, to the point where cya testing effects cost.
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#37
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What are the alternatives you have in mind and what makes them viable? Consider then OP when you provide your response. What is the cost of the OP not utilizing medical services? Do you make medical decisions based on how much you think it might cost? Medicine can be split into three parts, treatment, maintenance, and comfort. Which is absurd in your opinion? Don't you think first that you want whatever it takes to treat, maintain, or provide comfort? What makes a medical expense absurd? What makes other services or products absurd? For some spending $30K on a vintage Martin is absurd. If you contrast spending $30K for an operation and $30K for a pre war Martin, which is absurd? Which has more value to you personally? Personally, I think American medical services are amazing. I appreciate the facilities and those that work to provide us with their services.
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#38
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There is one gigantic historical foundation that most people are not aware of.
Comparing US costs is not helpful without this background information. A long time ago, victims of accidents had to hire and pay a lawyer to represent them. Lawyers could not divert from their stable income-earning efforts to take on risky cases. Conversely, rich people could afford massive legal teams and often out-spend their opponents. The result was that poor victims were not represented properly against liabilities and rich victims always were. There was a massive unfairness to the victims. If you hit a poor pedestrian on the street, don't worry they can't afford a lawyer. So, the USA enacted regulations that allowed lawyers to keep 1/3rd of any liability judgement. The idea was to incentivize lawyers to take on those clients who couldn't otherwise pay. This system was massively abused by greed and this is the reason you see hourly accident lawyer commercials. You can track on a graph the gigantic spike in liability settlements to when this occurred. This is what directly led to gigantic lawsuits. Lawyers had massive incentives to push for absurdly large judgments. So,......this abused system resulted in gigantic lawsuits which, in turn, led to massive insurance and malpractice costs. This, is what drove the USA healthcare costs to be the worst ratio of quality-to-cost in the developed world. And you will never change this situation until you "undo" or reign in what caused it. We have the most amazing doctors and scientists and provide fantastic healthcare. But the cost is driven by the lawyers and accountants.
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#39
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so what was to negotiate??????????????????? I got a "quote", thought it was acceptable, and then was charged 10x what I was quoted... what has that to do with self reliance? I relied upon myself to refuse to pay the bill, hung up on the collections department repeatedly after I simply informed them they had lied, and eventually they reduced the bill again, I really FAIL to see just what you are implying. Last edited by Kerbie; 11-19-2017 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Rule #1, Edited quote |
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I get it online from from a US pharmacy (same exact drug mfg) for $23 pretty absurd don't ya think? Quote:
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 Last edited by KevWind; 11-19-2017 at 11:22 AM. |
#41
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While those are certainly factors but, they are not the only causes . One study on defensive costs concludes defensive medical costs represent 2.9 % of total Health Care spending. While those are arguably low numbers being based on direct defensive tests run at hospitals , even if you were to increase it to say 5% or even 10% that is a factor BUt There are many other factors as well and much more that would need to be addressed, beside just "tort" reform. Not the least of which is the fundamental conflict between the notion of "for profit business" and driving down consumer costs at the risk of not continuing an exponential profit rise.
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 Last edited by KevWind; 11-19-2017 at 11:24 AM. |
#42
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Going to the emergency room via an ambulance for a stomach ache seems a bit extreme, though I’m sure it seemed like an emergency. What does your policy say about ER visits ?
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#43
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If you spend more than you take in, profit based or otherwise, they work exactly the same. Costs have to go up, services have to go down, or you have to cease operations. Even in Gov't paid for services, you sooner or later will run out of other people's money.
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#44
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#45
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The "hourly accident lawyer commercials" have nothing to do with it. The accident lawyers ("in a wreck? Call today!") advertising on TV and billboards typically only work car wreck case (and in many cases they don't even file lawsuits - if they don't get a quick settlement with an auto insurance company, they pass the case off to someone else). They have nothing to do with medical malpractice lawsuits, med mal insurance, or health care costs. Finally, juries tend to have more sense than most people like to think. Those enormous verdicts people like to talk about generally happen in cases where plaintiffs actually need enormous sums to pay for the care they're going to need for the rest of their lives as a result of horrific injuries caused by someone screwing up. |