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  #61  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:08 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I read an earlier post where someone demanded that they keep their cats out of his garden/yard whatever.
This is, of course, impossible.

Cats are territorial; they establish their territories by fighting or standing off other cats that might be around.

A cat's territory is not limited by human notions of boundaries but by feline ones and they are three dimensional - i.e all or any part of their territory may also be another cat's but they "own" it at different times - how they agree or tel the time is not shared to us.

However your house is probably considered inviolate as that is his/her "nest/lair", and incomers are rarely accepted without a fight - of course they intruder may win and will then inherit your home in which case there will be a lot of spraying going on.

Cats are complex critters and are not as domesticated as we might think. They are predators and if something small and fluffy or feathery moves, their instincts will take over and they'll hunt-kill etc. Doesn't matter if they are hungry or not. In fact it doesn't matter what it is - they react to movement not species.

My last Burmese male once deposited a rabbit (or most of it, at the to of our stairs - it was bigger than the cat - how he got it though the two cat flaps we'll never know.

I understand that in the US some keep cats permanently in the house. I understand that this may be thought necessary if there are larger native predators who may take them but as that is not the case in the UK I would not keep my cat housebound any more than I'd sentence a bird to life imprisonment in a cage.

We have had four Burmese cats. The last one died in April as I was starting my cancer treatment which was a low blow.

We got him as an adult from the Burmese Club. He had been on a small farm with two or three other cats, and was a "one man cat - the elderly man of the house, who, we were told, died suddenly.
The cat went crazy and drove the other cats out of the house, and attacked the widowed lady. She had to have him taken away.

We are advised to keep cats inside for 4-6 weeks to settle them in...nothing settles a Burmese who wants free reign, (rein?) and he moved a heavy wooden block and smashed through the locked cat flap and destroyed the panel in which it had been installed. He came back when he was hungry.

He surely was very aggressive at first,but once he knew he had freedom to move, he settled down and became a "pussy cat" with me, although Jane never really trusted him even though it was her lap he preferred to watch TV from.
Cats, are complex critters - in fact (and no offence intended) I feel their mentality is rather like autism in humans.
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  #62  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:35 PM
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Cats have a high breeding rate. Under controlled breeding, they can be bred and shown as registered pedigree pets, a hobby known as cat fancy. Failure to control the breeding of pet cats by neutering, as well as the abandonment of former household pets, has resulted in large numbers of feral cats worldwide, requiring population control. In certain areas outside cats' native range, this has contributed, along with habitat destruction and other factors, to the extinction of many bird species. Cats have been known to extirpate a bird species within specific regions and may have contributed to the extinction of isolated island populations. Cats are thought to be primarily responsible for the extinction of 33 species of birds, and the presence of feral and free-ranging cats makes some otherwise suitable locations unsuitable for attempted species reintroduction.

Since cats were venerated in ancient Egypt, they were commonly believed to have been domesticated there, but there may have been instances of domestication as early as the Neolithic from around 9,500 years ago (7,500 BC). A genetic study in 2007 concluded that all domestic cats are descended from Near Eastern wildcats, having diverged around 8,000 BC in the Middle East. A 2016 study found that leopard cats were undergoing domestication independently in China around 5,500 BC, though this line of partially domesticated cats leaves no trace in the domesticated populations of today. A 2017 study confirmed that domestic cats are descendants of those first domesticated by farmers in the Near East around 9,000 years ago.
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  #63  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:35 PM
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Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twelvefret View Post
Here in lies the problem. Cat's are not the problem, but humans who choose to live close to each other. My cat is spayed and has 12 acres to roam. That's more natural than keeping the poor thing in a house while gaining weight and developing diabetes from being over fed.
The problem is that domesticated cats, despite being well fed, are over-killing birds and rodents for no reason other than to satisfy an innate urge.

Another problem is people that make negative, sweeping assumptions about everyone else.

Incidentally, my property is in a rural setting abutting a fair-sized forest. The low human density and square miles of roaming didn't prevented Fred from keeping the chipmunks and squirrels away.

Last edited by Herb Hunter; 11-18-2017 at 05:19 PM.
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  #64  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:44 PM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
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The problem is that domesticated cats, despite being well fed, are over-killing birds and rodents for no reason other than to satisfy an innate urge.

Another problem is people that make negative, sweeping assumptions about everyone else.
Yep and Not just in the US

"Cats kill 275 million other animals a year
Domestic cats are lethal hunters, killing at least 275 million other animals a year in Britain, a report showed today.
The apparently cuddly pets prey on a number of declining and endangered species, including water voles and dormice, said the Mammal Society.

The survey, called Look What the Cat Brought in, found that the average household cat caught or killed between 30 and 40 creatures a year.

With an estimated nine million pet cats in this country, the haul amounted to 200 million mammals, 55 million birds and 10 million reptiles and amphibians.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4ypGWtXCT

In the US

Cats kill more than one billion birds each year
New estimate suggests hunting felines take bigger bite than expected out of wildlife
BY SUSAN MILIUS 5:35PM, JANUARY 29, 2013
Domestic cats kill many more wild birds in the United States than scientists thought, according to a new analysis. Cats may rank as the biggest immediate danger that living around people brings to wildlife, researchers say.

SMALL HUNTERS, BIG PROBLEM Cats may be killing far more birds each year than previously thought, as well as substantial numbers of mammals, says a new analysis based on hunting studies from around the world


America’s cats, including housecats that adventure outdoors and feral cats, kill between 1.3 billion and 4.0 billion birds in a year, says Peter Marra of the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute in Washington, D.C., who led the team that performed the analysis. Previous estimates of bird kills have varied, he says, but “500 million is a number that has been thrown around a lot.”
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  #65  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:54 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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On the personal pet side of the topic, I have two house cats I adopted from the local shelter.

Last edited by Kerbie; 11-19-2017 at 04:06 AM. Reason: Removed details
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  #66  
Old 11-18-2017, 05:02 PM
Twelvefret Twelvefret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
The problem is that domesticated cats, despite being well fed, are over-killing birds and rodents for no reason other than to satisfy an innate urge.

Another problem is people that make negative, sweeping assumptions about everyone else.
You are making assumptions about over-killing for no reason.

Sure, if you live in a urban area you may have a point. Yes, you can keep the cat indoor and they get obese from too much food or the wrong diet. I've never seen an indoor cat who was normal weight.

Like I said, it's not the case in rural areas. Cats are predatory and they are useful where rabbits , moles, chipmunks, and squirrels can do much damage to house and property. It might surprise you to know that cats eat what they kill.
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  #67  
Old 11-18-2017, 05:02 PM
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I have nothing against housecoats per se nor those who own them. However, it boggles my mind when cat owners let them loose outside and absolve their responsibility until the cats return home....
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  #68  
Old 11-18-2017, 08:16 PM
AmericanEagle AmericanEagle is offline
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I find this anti-cat sentiment bothersome.
What about dogs?
I think pit bulls should be banned,
and all dogs, when outside, should always be leashed
and under full control of their owner.
I have been chased many times by loose dogs,
and both my son and I have been bitten by dogs.
I carry a large can of mace/pepper spray with me whenever
I take walks outside. Any loose dog comes near me, and it will
get a faceful of hurt!
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  #69  
Old 11-18-2017, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanEagle View Post
...all dogs, when outside, should always be leashed and under full control of their owner....
I agree 100%. Owners should be in control of their pets, be they dogs or cats...
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  #70  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:17 PM
sayheyjeff2 sayheyjeff2 is offline
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Come to our house you have and will find cats. They have been great friends over the years. We are lucky enough to have a pretty big yard for being pretty close to the city and have put big effort into gardening and landscaping. We feed as many birds as we can so the will be here. We get herons, hawks, woodpeckers, blue jays, gold finch, humming birds and more. We probably have 2 dozen bird houses and about a dozen feeders, besides planting plants that attract birds. The our cat(s) have been indoor cats, but there are always a bunch of cats on our block. They get a few birds, but we have been careful to put the feeders where the birds can generally eat safely. We lost our 3rd cat in 4 years (14, 16, and 19) last summer. Since then we joined an organization called Pet Connect. This org takes cats and dogs, provides foster homes like ours, and finds 'forever homes' for them. It's been great for us. Of course we had to adopt one little 2 pounder who came up from Puerto Rico. We have had 4 others that have new forever homes (1 is still with us for another week). We are lucky to have a good house for it and young Carmen seems to like having the fosters come play with her and keep her company. It's only a little tough on our friends with cat allergies.

Jeff
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  #71  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:22 PM
Twelvefret Twelvefret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP View Post
I agree 100%. Owners should be in control of their pets, be they dogs or cats...
I agree. If I lived in a neighborhood I would not own a cat because for me it would be too much trouble and I just don't think it's in the animals best interest to be locked up or restrained. Plus, I really do not care for animals in the house.

I've had some bad experiences with dogs and bicycles.

It's important to get the proper inoculations and prevent unwanted pregnancies.
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  #72  
Old 11-19-2017, 03:32 AM
D. Shelton D. Shelton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitar View Post
On the personal pet side of the topic, I have two house cats I adopted from the local shelter.
Interesting....I hadn't even thought of a dynamic like that. Out here (on the Rio Grande) the feral cats don't last long (coyotes) and there are a couple of huge Cooper's Hawks that hang out , along with the less-frequently-seen Owls. Lots of mice for the house cats to munch , leaving the heads behind for
show -and-tell .

Apropos to nothing much...

Last edited by Kerbie; 11-19-2017 at 04:07 AM. Reason: Edited quote
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  #73  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:28 AM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
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Chocolate spotted Ocicat....

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