Stage Monitoring/Amplification Options - Sort of Specific

[Nate74]

I should admit upfront I'm primarily a working upright bass player. But I also am competent enough on guitar that I've been asked to do some sub work with a local Irish folk group. I was concerned about amplification and stage monitoring and got some good advice here which got me through the first gig yesterday. I used my K&K equipped Blueridge into PZ-Pre pedal. I sent one signal into a little Mackie SRM-150 stand mount monitor and the other into the mixer for the house mix. I got some compliments on my guitar sound so I'm assuming the house sound was pretty good, but the SRM-150 sounded absolutely horrible all gig long. I could hear myself OK, but the tone was crappy enough it was to the point of being distracting.

So today I starting messing around with some other options that I have and would be open to additional thoughts.

Option 1 would be to go with the same basic setup but to use a little powered 10" floor monitor in place of the Mackie. I tried that out today with the PZ-Pre into an inexpensive Alto 10" powered speaker and it sounded pretty good. But with no reverb it would still just be for stage monitoring, though it would probably be loud enough for me to get some house volume out of it.

Option 2 would be to use the Acoustic Image Clarus head I use for upright. It has a high enough impedance that I can plug straight into it and it has a pretty nice reverb too. But, the only cabinets I have are upright bass cabinets. A single 10" Acme and a custom built LDS 2x8" cab. Both are really nice on upright but don't have enough high end sparkle to do an acoustic guitar justice. Do they even make cabinets voice specifically for acoustic guitar not in a combo amp format? I'd prefer not to buy another cabinet though since there are only 3 more of these sub gigs in my future, but I guess I might have to bite the bullet and invest a little bit into my guitar gigging "career."

Option 3 would be also a form of biting the bullet and that would be to look into an acoustic guitar only combo amp of some sort. But to get enough volume out of one, it seems I'd need to spend way more money than I'll make in the 4 gigs I currently have on the books. What might I expect to spend for a gig worthy combo that could hang with an electric bass and drummer? Or do you always go direct with acoustic guitar in a situation like that and the amp is just stage volume?

Last option would be to just survive sounding crappy on stage with the SRM-150 I guess...

Thanks in advance.

[arashaw]

What about a QSC k10 or an EV powered speaker? You could also uses it as a main on small gigs.

[krisls]

Sort of depends on how loud you need to be, I can't see an Irish Folk Band being outrageous in the volume stakes.

So...do you need a monitor? If so then the best way to go is probably an 8 or 10 inch powered like QSC K or Yam DXR/DBR, JBL PXR, EV etc... that will depend on your ears and your budget. If you need to add reverb or chorus or whatever then a pedal or two will do it.

Second option is an Amp like a Fishman Loudbox Mini or Artist depending on punch required. Budget again plays it's part.

I use K 10's as my mains for solo stuff ( no monitor) and the odd sit in they are wonderful as a monitor. I have assorted pedals including a PZ Deluxe so similar. Also now and then for small things cafe style a Roland AC60 on a small stand.

As ever it depends.

Kris

[Nate74]

Yeah, if I go with a 10" monitor, the little Alto I've been experimenting would be fine. I'm thinking I may get a cheapy reverb pedal and go that route. Much cheaper than a Loudbox type option and easier to store

Thanks for the thoughts.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Nate74

Yeah, if I go with a 10" monitor, the little Alto I've been experimenting would be fine. I'm thinking I may get a cheapy reverb pedal and go that route. Much cheaper than a Loudbox type option and easier to store

Thanks for the thoughts.

Nate,

Which output are you using to send the signal from the PZ-Pre to the SRM-150?

Louis

[buzzardwhiskey]

I'm betting that changing to a larger monitor won't help much. I suspect that the SRM-150 is fine and that the difference is a combination of the EQ that was applied at the board and your being too picky.

A small two-channel sub-mixer might do it for you.

[Nate74]

Originally Posted by lschwart

Nate,

Which output are you using to send the signal from the PZ-Pre to the SRM-150?

Louis

Lou,

I was sending the Pre-EQ signal to the SRM-150 and the Post-EQ signal to the house. The little 3-band eq on the SRM-150 didn't help much.

There's also a 1/4" Output out of the PZ-Pre, that I'm assuming is also Post-EQ. Maybe I should send that to the Mackie?

BTW, I hooked up the little Alto 10" powered monitor today to the Post-EQ XLR out of the PZ-Pre and it's worlds better. A little dry sounding with no verb, but good enough it could be a great monitoring rig or maybe loud enough to use like an "amp" for house sound.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Nate74

Lou,

I was sending the Pre-EQ signal to the SRM-150 and the Post-EQ signal to the house. The little 3-band eq on the SRM-150 didn't help much.

There's also a 1/4" Output out of the PZ-Pre, that I'm assuming is also Post-EQ. Maybe I should send that to the Mackie?

BTW, I hooked up the little Alto 10" powered monitor today to the Post-EQ XLR out of the PZ-Pre and it's worlds better. A little dry sounding with no verb, but good enough it could be a great monitoring rig or maybe loud enough to use like an "amp" for house sound.

I was thinking exactly this (that you should send the 1/4" out to the SRM150), so you have the advantages of the PZ-Pre's EQ and notch filter. There's no point in using the PreEQ out unless you need to send a naked signal for someone at the board to process for you in the house mix.

On the other hand, as you've noted, the Alto sounds better--which is no surprise to me. If you want to have some reverb on your monitor signal to smooth out the pickup sound, you could just put something like a Hall of Fame Mini in line between the PZ-Pre and whatever you end up using for monitoring. Make sure the Alto has an instrument level input option (or get a speaker that does--the Yamaha DBR10 is a good choice if you want something a bit higher quality than the Alto).

If you would still like something close to the size of the SRM150, you might look into the TC Helicon VoiceSolo FX150, which has a better, smoother-sounding speaker than the Mackie, plus effects and EQ. Or even better might be to take the combo amp route, which works really well for a lot of people. I used to do it that way all the time and sometimes still do.

Louis

[ricdoug]

The Alto with a mixer with built in effects would give you another option to keep your expenses down. You would use a 1/4" TRS cable from a Main Out to the Alto:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Harbinge...01720417373.gc

http://harbingerproaudio.com/wp-cont...2FX_Manual.pdf



Photos of one of the two I own. There's also a comparison to another compact mixer I own just to show how little space the Harbinger's take up:















My Alto TX8's I've used with the Harbinger boards:

[Nate74]

Some great info here. Thanks you guys so much!

Originally Posted by lschwart

I was thinking exactly this (that you should send the 1/4" out to the SRM150), so you have the advantages of the PZ-Pre's EQ and notch filter. There's no point in using the PreEQ out unless you need to send a naked signal for someone at the board to process for you in the house mix.

On the other hand, as you've noted, the Alto sounds better--which is no surprise to me. If you want to have some reverb on your monitor signal to smooth out the pickup sound, you could just put something like a Hall of Fame Mini in line between the PZ-Pre and whatever you end up using for monitoring. Make sure the Alto has an instrument level input option (or get a speaker that does--the Yamaha DBR10 is a good choice if you want something a bit higher quality than the Alto).

If you would still like something close to the size of the SRM150, you might look into the TC Helicon VoiceSolo FX150, which has a better, smoother-sounding speaker than the Mackie, plus effects and EQ. Or even better might be to take the combo amp route, which works really well for a lot of people. I used to do it that way all the time and sometimes still do.

Louis

Just did a trial run using the 1/4" out of the PZ-Pre into the Mackie. A HUGE difference. Obviously not as big sounding as the Alto 10", but totally usable for the few remaining gigs I have.

Originally Posted by ricdoug

The Alto with a mixer with built in effects would give you another option to keep your expenses down.

I have a Soundcraft EFX8 that has some pretty nice built in effects, that I've used for small bands and one or two solo/duo things I do. Works great with a pair of the Alto 10's or for bigger stuff I've used my EV powered 12's.

Certainly not a bad option to consider. But the added gear and stage room might be an issue I guess.

I'll tell you though, with the sound the Mackie 150 is now getting, I think I can get through the next couple gigs, though I do think I'll check out the Hall of Fame Mini or a few of the other well regarded verb pedals I see being discussed here.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Nate74

Some great info here. Thanks you guys so much!



Just did a trial run using the 1/4" out of the PZ-Pre into the Mackie. A HUGE difference. Obviously not as big sounding as the Alto 10", but totally usable for the few remaining gigs I have.



I have a Soundcraft EFX8 that has some pretty nice built in effects, that I've used for small bands and one or two solo/duo things I do. Works great with a pair of the Alto 10's or for bigger stuff I've used my EV powered 12's.

Certainly not a bad option to consider. But the added gear and stage room might be an issue I guess.

I'll tell you though, with the sound the Mackie 150 is now getting, I think I can get through the next couple gigs, though I do think I'll check out the Hall of Fame Mini or a few of the other well regarded verb pedals I see being discussed here.

I suspected that this was the core issue, since the SRM150 is perfectly serviceable for near-field monitoring as long as the stage isn't too loud and as long as the signal going in is one you'd like to hear! The raw DI signal from the pre-EQ out of the PZ-Pre is meant to be processed at a mixing board, not amplified raw or only processed by something like the modest EQ on the SRM150.

Louis

[Nate74]

Originally Posted by lschwart

I suspected that this was the core issue, since the SRM150 is perfectly serviceable for near-field monitoring as long as the stage isn't too loud and as long as the signal going in is one you'd like to hear! The raw DI signal from the pre-EQ out of the PZ-Pre is meant to be processed at a mixing board, not amplified raw or only processed by something like the modest EQ on the SRM150.

Louis

Saved me quite a bit of $$ and consternation so again, thank you! Sort of embarrassed that I didn't think of it earlier honestly. And yes, plenty of volume when I used it this past weekend, just not a terribly appealing sound.

Thanks again!

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Nate74

Saved me quite a bit of $$ and consternation so again, thank you! Sort of embarrassed that I didn't think of it earlier honestly. And yes, plenty of volume when I used it this past weekend, just not a terribly appealing sound.

Thanks again!

Glad to help!

Louis