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Old 02-11-2017, 10:56 AM
Hatter Hatter is offline
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Question Help with Fingerstyle(picking)

Okay,so Ive been playing the guitar for a bit over a year,got all the basics,chords,barre chords,stuff like that. Now I discovered fingerstyle and saw some people like Peter Gergely and Gareth Evans,I dont wanna mention Tommy Emanuel and the crew cuz thats lifetime of playing and Ill probably never play like that. Ive been practicing fingerstyle stuff from guitarnick and other random sites with tabs,but these songs seem...I dont know,its like a pattern,there's no real melody to them. And then I see Peter for example and hes rocking that melody like its pouring out of his soul. Now my question is,where to start if I wanna play like that? I know it takes a lot of practice,which I have no problem with,but these silly patterns dont seem to improve anything. I just feel so stuck with the guitar.
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:11 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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There is really a lot of free melodic fingerstyle tab available on line. Besides just PDF tabs, if you get yourself free tab software
(PowerTab (Windows only) and TablEdit) you can download and listen to tabs on such sites as:

http://acousticpower.com/variousA-D.html


http://www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/tab.html

I have a number of free tabs on my website with a midi of each.
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:28 PM
Hatter Hatter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
There is really a lot of free melodic fingerstyle tab available on line. Besides just PDF tabs, if you get yourself free tab software
(PowerTab (Windows only) and TablEdit) you can download and listen to tabs on such sites as:

http://acousticpower.com/variousA-D.html


http://www.stevemcwilliam.co.uk/guitar/tab.html

I have a number of free tabs on my website with a midi of each.
Oh my! Thank you so much! This is amazing,I cant believe I havent found anything like this yet. Thanks once again!
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:28 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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There's basically two kinds of fingerstyle - OK, more than that, but two in this sense: (1) a way of breaking up chords to accompany a song (vocal); (2) instrumental pieces for solo performance (no vocal).

Most of the lessons you've seen are probably on the kind of patterns you'd use to accompany vocals (type (1) - so they would usually have no melody (because you'd be singing that).

Classical guitar is obviously one source of type (2). There are countless studies, from beginner to advanced, if you want to develop classical fingerstyle. (It doesn't have to be on nylon-string.)

Another source would be jazz chord-melody style, although that's usually technically quite advanced.

The folk-blues-country style - of which Tommy Emmanuel is obviously a master - starts simple. For example, he plays an insane version of Elizabeth Cotton's Freight Train (original a vocal), but that can start quite simple (as her original was). Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3RArufrbgw

I also suggest you do some research to build up a picture of the genre. Check out the following:

Blind Blake
Mississippi John Hurt
Merle Travis
Chet Atkins
Doc Watson
Davey (or Davy) Graham
Bert Jansch
John Fahey
Leo Kottke
John Renbourn
Stefan Grossman
Martin Carthy
Martin Simpson

(There are many others of course, that's just off the top of my head)
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:43 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Two suggestions:

1. Go to YouTube and look for Mississipi John Hurt. Listen, enjoy, absorb.

2. Find an old tune you like and use YouTube or whatever to find as many different people playing it (solo guitar) as possible. John gives a list to start you out. Compare and contrast.

Third suggestion:

Start slow, get funky.

Have fun!!!
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Old 02-11-2017, 12:54 PM
Kalyx Kalyx is offline
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Hello there,

I feel your pain! I've been learning certain kinds of "fingerstyle" over the past year and a half and have found it very, very challenging!

Reading what you wrote, I'm reminded of the difference I found between "Travis-style" fingerpicking like in the song "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac and versus alternating thumb/bass with melody lines ala Tommy Emmanuel, Chet Atkins, and blues players like Mississippi John Hurt and Robert Johnson. I find the style of "Landslide" or "Dust in the Wind" to be MUCH easier to get down because the fingers and thumb are doing a fairly stereotyped movement, whereas the latter artists employ independence in their fingers from the thumb.

I highly recommend checking out Tom Feldmann on YouTube. He has tons of great DVDs on fingerstyle blues that focus on finger-thumb independence, and he has a plethora of free lessons on YouTube. Muriel Anderson on TrueFire also has a good lesson on intermediate Chet Atkins-style playing, although she had to modify the actual melody lines for licensing reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHDddh9Q8rs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYz9tQ7inKA

Good luck!
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Last edited by Kalyx; 02-11-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2017, 11:04 PM
Seby Seby is offline
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Give this a go.

Tune to an open tuning. Try Open D, so low-to-high D, A, D, F#, A, D.

The trick is to add one finger at a time, very, very slowly. Try playing drone with your thumb first. That is, just keeping a steady 4/4 beat going on the open bass string with your thumb. Whist doing that, use your index finger to play a very simple melody on the higher strings, up and down the neck.

Stick with this until you are very comfortable moving all over the guitar neck whilst keeping up the bass drone. Also, try playing on the backbeat! I mean do this for months at least.

When you are well and truly down with this, add your middle finger to the game.

Once you have your thumb-drone, and index + middle finger playing down pretty comfortably (many more months, at least), start making the bassline a bit more interesting by fretting some bass notes, as well as using your thumb to introduce bass notes on the fifth and fourth strings. Since your bass/6th string and your fourth string are both tuned to D, you can alternate your thumb between these two for the "alternating drone" bassline that you will recognise as soon as you hear it.

Now, when _this_ is all down pretty comfortably (quite a while by this stage), add the ring finger of your picking hand to the game. And so on with your pinky too should you so choose.

Now, expect _all_ of this to take a long time, okay? : )

As Mark Knophler said, you have got to really want to get better, because most of the time it is just frustrating.

Full-bore fingerstyle is a lifetime of continuous effort. There is no end to it, only an awareness of things that we cannot yet play. The great thing is, we _never_ stop progressing. There are always new patterns just around the corner!
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:53 AM
Hatter Hatter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seby View Post
Full-bore fingerstyle is a lifetime of continuous effort. There is no end to it, only an awareness of things that we cannot yet play. The great thing is, we _never_ stop progressing. There are always new patterns just around the corner!
This is what I needed. I realize it takes a lot of practice,and nothing is achieved overnight,but it's extremely frustrating to see the tab,know the stuff you need to play and not being able to do it hah. Thanks for the motivation!
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:27 AM
GBS GBS is offline
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This sounds crazy, but you might want to consider trying a couple of Leo Kottke's easiest. They also introduce open tunings.

Found at: http://www.tabpigs.org/thetabs/leokottke.html

Look for:
"The Sailors Grave on the Prairie"
"Anyway"
(both are slide tunes, but still sound very nice when just fingering/barre-ing and not worrying about the slides)
And a couple of Leo played John Fahey tunes:
"Sail Away Ladies"
"The Last Steam Engine Train" (std. tuning, built around basic chords)


Sure, with Leo you can get very deep, very fast - but those above (especially the first three) have very simple fingerings, yet introduce the importance of melody, timing, and freeing the fingers from repetitive patterns. Yet they don't overwhelm, and sound great even when played much slower than Leo plays them. All can be found on YouTube.
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:08 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Nice to see Leo and John get a mention. I'd throw in a couple of Brits as well:
Bert Jansch and John Renborn.

I think we all start out with one form of pattern picking or another, then adapt our technique over time. In my case I started out with the Elizabeth Cotten/Mississippi John tunes and have ended up 50 years later closer to Joe Pass.

In the beginning the melody came from two patterns: basic first position open chords and alternating bass. Now every finger picks what is needed, the melody line and triads dictating the picking and fingering. Chords are sort of "in name only", use the entire neck instead of first position, thumb just does what's needed to run a bass line while the index and middle fingers play the melody and counter lines.

So it seems to me that in the beginning the playing was derived from the patterns while decades later any "patterns" are derived from the playing, hindsight being 20-20.

Anyhoo, it's been a lot of fun.
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:39 PM
Hatter Hatter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Chords are sort of "in name only", use the entire neck instead of first position, thumb just does what's needed to run a bass line while the index and middle fingers play the melody and counter lines.

So it seems to me that in the beginning the playing was derived from the patterns while decades later any "patterns" are derived from the playing, hindsight being 20-20.

Anyhoo, it's been a lot of fun.
Yeah,I discovered this just hours ago. My problem was that all I learned were shapes(basic ones,the first position). I guess its time for a lot of theory and memorizing the fretboard and chord positions across whole thing. Thanks for the advice,it was helpful!
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:00 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
Yeah,I discovered this just hours ago. My problem was that all I learned were shapes(basic ones,the first position). I guess its time for a lot of theory and memorizing the fretboard and chord positions across whole thing. Thanks for the advice,it was helpful!
I still think a lot in "virtual first position"...moved up the neck, but I'm working out of triads or triads against a bass note, still using a lot of the chord:chord relationships learned initially in first position. But I'm picking only a bare minimum. It still sounds full and utilizes a more diatonic approach rather than chromatic. I use such terms after the fact. Play first, analyze later.

You can have a ton of fun working with just two notes in a "tenth" interval, basically playing in "stretched thirds" extending just over an octave. Sixths are fun as well. I wish I had some kind of tab program to demonstrate, but I don't have a computer as such.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:07 PM
Seby Seby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
Yeah,I discovered this just hours ago. My problem was that all I learned were shapes(basic ones,the first position). I guess its time for a lot of theory and memorizing the fretboard and chord positions across whole thing. Thanks for the advice,it was helpful!
You do not need any theory at all!

Just wander around the fretboard until you find places that sound cool within the context of what you are playing. Once you find two of them, then you can hunt for a cool sounding way to link them together.

Trust your ears. It is your own sonic gesture, and you may make of it what you wish.
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Old 02-19-2017, 08:04 AM
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srick srick is offline
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Hatter -

Let me recommend Toby Walker's "Blues Fingerpicking Freedom" (Homespun) lesson. I have had this on my computer for the last several years. I went through it again last week. Using the CAGED system, Toby gradually increases your ability to work up the fretboard and duplicate first position chords, melody and structure up the neck. If you keep an eye on the Homoespun website, you can probably get a decent discount as they are always running sales. All of the Homespun lessons are excellent and have been money well spent.

As far as patterns go, I always loved the story attributed to Chet Atkins. He apparently said that from age 14 - 16 he was constantly drumming his fingers on the desk, driving everyone crazy - and that was how he learned to play patterns.

Best,

Rick
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
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…Now my question is,where to start if I wanna play like that? I know it takes a lot of practice,which I have no problem with,but these silly patterns dont seem to improve anything. I just feel so stuck with the guitar.
Hi Hatter
I've taught fingerstyle guitar for nearly 37 years.

There are three main varieties…
Thumb-n-one finger (Travis style)
Thumb-n-two fingers
Thumb-n-three fingers

Thumb-n-three is by far the most popular, and comes in two varieties - classical hand/leg/guitar position and (for lack of a better term) the rest of us. The rest of us play right knee, hand at about a 45° oblique angle across the strings, and we will either float, drag and/or drop the pinky onto the top of the guitar. And of course there are individuals who mix-n-match all these, or play standing on their heads. But these are the main categories of players…

Classical hand position is the most demanding, and in my 39 years of teaching I've only had 2 students who used that position and we got along swimmingly and never discussed them (or me) changing hand positions. And they didn't have issues learning from a pinky dragging, oblique hand position teacher. Classical position is the most demanding and precise, but when it comes to outcomes, and average people playing, the rest of the world (apart from classical technique) focuses on results not technique.

Patterns accomplish two things primarily, and a subset of useful techniques. Getting you up to speed playing accompaniments (to singing), and learning to fingerstyle with good rhythm. They also help one become familiar with alternating bass, split finger playing, plucking, and relaxed playing.

I personally prefer to start students on thumb-n-three because it's more flexible than the other styles (you can play more complex chords) but it's not magic, and whichever you choose, in the end they are all work, and you can make great music if you master fingerstyle at even a mediocre level.

Whether you ever learn to play those linear melodies while playing the other accompaniment parts with the rest of the fingers/thumb, even pattern play can be satisfying.

Have fun learning and growing…

Pete Huttlinger, Thom Bresh, Mark Hanson (MarkHanson dot com), Al Petteway, all have great teaching materials. Homespun Tapes (dot com), Amazon (dot com), both have a wealth of materials. Even Justin Sandecoe (popular Australian teacher on YouTube) has some things on basic fingerstyle.

There is no method or teacher that will make it easier. But systematic training of the digits produces great outcomes!




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