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  #16  
Old 02-15-2018, 11:46 PM
TD2 TD2 is offline
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There have been more than a few posts that claim that their HPL Martin has "that Martin sound" so it can't be the wood. Maybe part of it is that the name on the headstock creates an expectation so that's what we hear?
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2018, 06:20 AM
Guitarplayer_PR Guitarplayer_PR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy View Post
Lets get away from "Martin is the best" for this in not what the OP indicated.

Are you sure?
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2018, 06:41 AM
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What is the top made of?
How thick is it?
What is the finish?
How thick is it?
What is the bracing pattern?
What are the braces made of?
What is the bracing shape? Mass?
What are the back and sides made of?
How thick?
What is the neck made of?
How thick is the neck? How much mass?
Kerfling? I am not sure.
Glue type? How much? I am not sure.
How precise is their manufacturing?

By the way, just when I think I understand the formula, I play an example that negates my preconceived notions. For example, I have owned several Hummingbirds, and had felt that the lighter the model, the better the tone is to my ears. And then I played a heavy one from a weight perspective...
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:23 AM
Jasper64 Jasper64 is offline
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Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
Well that's interesting. So you think that so many builder's copy to minute detail the size, shape and look of a Martin, but end there in wanting to copy/emulate that which they copy? I think that has been debunked for a long time. Builder's like Huss&Dalton, Collings, Santa Cruz (for example) certainly have their own sound but other builders, I believe, just aren't close in tone and sound. Similarly anyone can play Clapton or Hendrix but even in copying the notes, they sound nothing like the original.

No. I think any builder that has the technology and skill (like Taylor, Collings ,etc.,) can take apart a Martin and copy it exactly. But they all want their "own" sound. There is no secret sauce in the making of a guitar. I think Taylor is actually trying to go in an opposite direction don't you think? Martin has mastered its guitar sound/tone....
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
Every company has its "secret sauce". They develop their signature sounds and then seek ways to reproduce it with elements within their designs. If you haven't noticed, Martin seems to be changing their secret sauce with forward shifted bracing, wider nut widths. I maintain that the sound paradigm that we players expect has shifted and they're now looking for a new Martin sound that will remain relevant.
I'm not sure I would call the changes a paradigm shift as much cashing in on one aspect of their more popular or sought after designs.
Forward shifting braces has been around for a while on some Martin guitars. From what I understand changes were made many years ago to adjust for higher tension strings. So they are going back to the "Old Days"

Not a Martin expert so I could be wrong.
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  #21  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper64 View Post
No. I think any builder that has the technology and skill (like Taylor, Collings ,etc.,) can take apart a Martin and copy it exactly. But they all want their "own" sound. There is no secret sauce in the making of a guitar. I think Taylor is actually trying to go in an opposite direction don't you think? Martin has mastered its guitar sound/tone....
I don’t think Taylor should be mentioned in any discussion of Martin copy/clone/similar guitars. I’m not aware of anyone ever saying that Taylor has ever attempted to copy Martin. And like I spefically mentioned in my post, I don’t think Collins or most other factories are trying to copy the Martin sound. However, I disagree about there being a “secret sauce”. Otherwise someone buying a Martin kit would build a guitar that sounds just like the Martin factory version. The secret is with the builder tat’s why Martin “copies”, for the most part, sound nothing like the original.

If someone wants a Martin for name, sound, build or whatever.... there’s only one. I believe whole-heartedly that companies that “copy” Martin would absolutely copy the sound if they could.
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
Every company has its "secret sauce". They develop their signature sounds and then seek ways to reproduce it with elements within their designs. If you haven't noticed, Martin seems to be changing their secret sauce with forward shifted bracing, wider nut widths. I maintain that the sound paradigm that we players expect has shifted and they're now looking for a new Martin sound that will remain relevant.
Yet they still sound like a Martin. My Custom Shop 000-28 has GE bracing and a 1.75" nut and it couldn't sound more "Martin". People seem to forget that Martin began with forward shifted bracing and then moved the bracing back due to players using heavier gauge strings.

I think a lot of a guitar's sound comes from the shape of the braces more than their position, wood thickness, and finish type/thickness.
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
I don’t think Taylor should be mentioned in any discussion of Martin copy/clone/similar guitars. I’m not aware of anyone ever saying that Taylor has ever attempted to copy Martin. And like I spefically mentioned in my post, I don’t think Collins or most other factories are trying to copy the Martin sound. However, I disagree about there being a “secret sauce”. Otherwise someone buying a Martin kit would build a guitar that sounds just like the Martin factory version. The secret is with the builder tat’s why Martin “copies”, for the most part, sound nothing like the original.

If someone wants a Martin for name, sound, build or whatever.... there’s only one. I believe whole-heartedly that companies that “copy” Martin would absolutely copy the sound if they could.

I never said that Taylor tried to copy Martin other than the fact they all use(d) the x bracing. I just said that if they wanted I believe that any big time builder could replicate another builders' tone... I DID NOT say that Taylor tried to or is trying to .... Taylor is going in the opposite direction. That's ridiculous to say they couldn't do it. Martin did it with the authentics by x raying them and building to exact specigfications... outside of the natural aging process. The technology today with computers/lasers/etc (which most big builders use) can copy anything.
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Last edited by Jasper64; 02-16-2018 at 09:37 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:37 AM
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I don’t know much about guitar construction and how all the components affect tone, but was wondering why the type of neck joint doesn’t get much attention in terms of tone. Is it the least contributing factor for tone?
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  #25  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by guitarmac62 View Post
I don’t know much about guitar construction and how all the components affect tone, but was wondering why the type of neck joint doesn’t get much attention in terms of tone. Is it the least contributing factor for tone?

oh it definitely gets attention. People on both sides (bolt on vs dove tail) swear by their technique that it affects tone for the better.
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  #26  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:49 AM
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I have several and if I play them with a .73 celluloid pick and a 4mm Casein pick, they sound totally different, as-in little or no similarity. Add in the tones from fingerstyle players with or without thumb picks and fingerpicks and any given model might sound very different.
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  #27  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:08 AM
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Without being a luthier, I can’t pinpoint exactly what it is that makes Martins sound the way they do. But it is a combination of everything that has to do with their construction and wood selection. I love the Martin sound for some types of music, particularly their rosewood dreadnoughts for bluegrass and acoustic rock. But, the so called Martin sound is a bit of an overgeneralization to me. D28’s don’t sound the same as a D18 for example. They do both have that imbalanced strong bass and bright highs. But the don’t really have the same sound. The same could be said for other body styles. To complicate it even more, two D18’s don’t necessarily sound the same either.
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  #28  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:43 AM
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Not sure , I'm not a guitar builder, all I know is that they are building excellent playing and sounding guitars and I have never regretted buying my Jeff Tweedy . The quality of the woods and workmanship are first rate
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  #29  
Old 02-16-2018, 01:16 PM
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It's obvious that Pre-War guitars have copied Martin guitars and make guitars as good as the best Martin guitars. The entrenched die hard vintage Martin good old boys have spoken with their hard earned money by being the first in line purchasing them. And so far I'm not seeing any used ones pop up on the market.
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