#46
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Thanks. That's Jeff McErlain's and Tim Pierce's advice, as well. Jeff, in particular, recommends keeping it simple for a while. Fortunately, I have fairly limited needs. I would just like the FM3 to satisfy them as well as a modeler can.
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#47
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I'm having some fun with looping out to analog effects from the Helix. Of course it is also fun because my wife gave me a Catalinbread Belle Epoch Deluxe Echoplex EP-3 emulator.
Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#48
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I think that's good advice in general. Don't try to sound like something or someone else, just try to sound good.
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Patrick 2012 Martin HD-28V 1984 Martin Shenandoah D-2832 2018 Gretsch G5420TG Oscar Schmidt Autoharp, unknown vintage ToneDexter Bugera V22 Infinium |
#49
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It was a very young Eddie, blowing our minds when we thought we had talent. He was really Something! |
#50
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This should be a wonderful choice. I bet you will be pleased with this.
- Glenn
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My You Tube Channel |
#51
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I regret to report that I am not immediately enchanted. More study is called for.
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#52
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Not implying it's an onerous task or not worth it, I just don't think there's any such thing as a comprehensive modeler (amp plus cabs plus effects) that is going to be satisfying after a week or a month for a modeling newbie. Of course like everything in life, expectations are the key. If you can somehow come into it NOT expecting to hear sounds that blow you away it's probably easier to be patient. But we all tend to thing our new devices are going to be something really special after just a short while.
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Grabbed his jacket Put on his walking shoes Last seen, six feet under Singing the I've Wasted My Whole Life Blues ---Warren Malone "Whole Life Blues" |
#53
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One of the issues with modelers I have discovered is, that when playing through headphones or monitor speakers, they're never going to sound like playing through an amplifier at normal volumes. That said, I recently recorded an electric guitar through my favorite amplifier with a SM57 mic. I played the same parts recording through a tube amp (Fryette GP/DI) but using an IR loader recording silently. Through headphones or monitor speakers I could hardly tell the difference. Apparently, my experiences before this experiment was comparing the proverbial apples to oranges.
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=================================== '07 Gibson J-45 '68 Reissue (Fuller's) '18 Martin 00-18 '18 Martin GP-28E '65 Epiphone Zenith archtop |
#54
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Grabbed his jacket Put on his walking shoes Last seen, six feet under Singing the I've Wasted My Whole Life Blues ---Warren Malone "Whole Life Blues" |
#55
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I've gigged a modeler through PA and it sounded great. These days I do virtually all of my sessions with a modeler. I have patches that sound fantastic in the studio and need very little tweakage if any at all to drop right into a mix. Why? In the sturm und drang of an engineer/producer, I am well-acquainted with the guy who brings in his "perfect" guitar amp to record and doesn't want it tweaked. That amp may sound great to him but has to be carefully shaped to fit into a mix. Early on in this modeler poop I quit pursuing the dream of making the modeler sound just like a particular amp in a room and began pursuing creating sounds that sounded mature and mix-ready. They are based on classic amps but reproducing the amp isn't the goal. Reproducing a well-miked, well-tweaked amp is. Can you even imagine what it was like to be producer/engineer Bill Szymczyk during the "Hotel California" song guitar overdub sessions? The amps were in different rooms and Walsh and Felder sat on each side of him in the control room over two days and wrote and performed those solos while listening to the mix on the control room monitors. Szymczyk describes it a the highlight of his career. So, lot depends upon what monitors you are using. If you've got small near-field monitors, yep, it won't sound like a big guitar amp. Fender Champs use eight-inch speakers. However, if you've got access to large, tuned, monitors in a designed monitoring room at a goodly level, suddenly it sounds more... real. Fifteen-inch drivers Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#56
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Grabbed his jacket Put on his walking shoes Last seen, six feet under Singing the I've Wasted My Whole Life Blues ---Warren Malone "Whole Life Blues" |
#57
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Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#58
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I'm with both Bob and Brett on the modelers are not like a cranked amp in a live room.
In my younger days I used to do a fair amount of live amp and guitar interaction: not just pretty 'stand in the sweet-spot" sustain of a resonate note, but note-into howling-feedback or bumping right up against the amp to let all kinds of chaos let loose. I might still do that once in a while. Modelers didn't do that handily. I'm not sure what a full-range powered cab might do hooked up with modern modeling stuff -- though you still might not be able to do the spring-boing from the reverb tank-jarring move. However, my old ears and for that matter my old body isn't about to do that much, and the ability to simulate other cranked amp sounds at non-damaging volumes is a very practical value of modeling amps. Even while I'm mixing I try to make those timbral Fletcher-Munson decisions briefly and then return to modest levels.
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----------------------------------- Creator of The Parlando Project Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses.... |
#59
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But this wasn't the issue when I said that I wasn't initially enchanted with the FM3. First, the interface is sub-standard. I was actually ready for this. Usability engineering is a well-understood topic, but Fractal appears to have eschewed it. The interface isn't totally terrible, but it's not optimized, either. I think the company had a hit with their Axe-FX III and decided not to throw a curve to their user base. So they kept the logic of that unit when creating the FM9 and FM3. The problem is that the Axe-FX III is designed for musicians who have a degree in audio engineering. Lesser musicians have lesser skills, and I am one of those. Second, I wasn't taken with the built-in Presets. This caught me by surprise. FM3 Presets have a reputation for being quite good. They sound harsh to me. I'm not sure what the issue is. Third, the training materials are fairly awful. I'm actually used to this from a long history learning laboratory equipment. Try learning electron microscopy. But, it's still tough to deal with. The manual is of the type that describes the features of the equipment without describing how to use them. This is typical of technical manuals. I expected salvation from YouTube videos. Usually, there's someone out there on the interweb who understands how to teach technical issues, but I haven't found the right FM3 guy yet. Highly respected guys like Leon Todd have more history with modelers and don't relate to noobies very well. So, I'm writing a training manual as I'm learning the unit. |
#60
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When I got involved in guitar forums I eventually created a website to help answer questions about recording and guitar. These days I do reviews that are part review, part discovery, and part tutorial. Hopefully, some of it is useful to average guys. One of the tough areas to tread is the area of technical reduction: You can use a perfectly good technical description of an item and the average guy just can't understand it. Quite often you have to resort to reduction of the complexity, exclusion of some info, options, etc., use of analogy, so forth, to get the subject down to where the average Joe can handle it. This immediately subjects you to drive-by sniping by tech people who can't understand the whole business of communicating to mere humans. They often have no problem pillorying your work for its simplification, missing the whole point but making you look like a simpleton. It is a hit I am willing to take. Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |