Radial ToneBone PZ-PRE tuner out to Polytune Mini --terrible line buzz

Akousticplyr · #1 09-24-2017, 03:45 PM

Please help! I have significant line hum/buzz coming from the Tuner Out line. I am currently running a PZ PRE using a CIOKS DC10 with the correct red power cable. I am running a TS patch (and I've tried two in case one was bad) from the Tuner Out to a Polytune mini, also powered by a 9V channel from the DC10. The buzz is max volume/full peak.
What I find I have to do is run a line OUT of the Polytune mini to a separate PA channel (when they are available,) which goes to full peak due to buzz, and mute that channel. I've also noticed that whenever I touch the PZ PRE metal body with my hand, the Polytune mini display goes crazy trying to pickup a note even though I'm not playing anything. This happens in both channels 1 and 2 and with MUTE on or off. I do not have either piezo boost channel button pressed in on the side. I've also tried the ground loop button on the back. No effect. Is my PZ-PRE bad? I've got quite a few gigs scheduled and need help please!

I've just sent emails to Radial via their FAQ and service dept. I'm sure I'll get a reply soon, just wondering who else has experienced this and how you sorted it out.

Thanks!

lschwart · #2 09-24-2017, 04:41 PM

I don't know the answer, but have you eliminated the possibility that it's the tuner and not the preamp? Does the tuner work normally when it's used, say, before the PZ-Pre input--or even better with the tuner out of another preamp?

Louis

mandowilli · #3 09-24-2017, 09:33 PM

I have the same setup without the Cioks DC10.

If you have the original 15V power supply that came with the Tonebone try that and put a battery in the tuner. That way you could eliminate the DC10 as a possible source of the buzz.

What output are you using, the 1/4", the xlr pre eq, or xlr post eq?

krisls · #4 09-24-2017, 11:02 PM

Hmmmm... I have a Cioks DC10 running a PZ Deluxe and a polytune mini from the tuner out. Dead silent and works perfectly ~~ PZ 1x15v, Tuner & 4x9v pedals and 1x12v all run from the Cioks.

If you are certain you have everything setup correctly it does sound as though the Cioks may be at fault. I would double check all your connections though, especially those little red switches.

Kris

pieterh · #5 09-25-2017, 01:29 AM

I may be missing something, but why monitor the buzz on the tuner in the first place? I have a Pz-pre but not on my pedal board, it uses its own psu.

What I do know is that when I used an older Cioks power supply with non isolated power connectors I also got noise from Polytune tuner when using the tuner mode, sort of like white noise but only when the tuner was getting signal from the guitar. It only happened when connected to the power supply, not when using a battery or a separate 9v power supply. It also stopped when I got my DC10 - which has isolated supplies. Make sure you are powering the PolyTune from its own supply on the DC10, that is, not sharing that particular power output with anything else. Although it has 10 power outputs if I remember correctly they are in 8 sections so it may be possible to power two units from one section.

Also make sure that the Cioks is getting grounded power, just to eliminate variables.

steve_mac · #6 09-25-2017, 02:00 AM

No specifically your issue, but I suddenly started getting horrendous buzz last month and took my board apart trying to trace it, swapping cables, leaving out pedals etc. Changed battery in my hybrid guitar a PRS Hollowbody and nothing helped. Almost as a last resort I got some electrical contact cleaner and sprayed every input/output jack. Instant success. Quiet as the grave now.
Again not saying it will work for you but maybe worth a try?
Cheers Steve.

pieterh · #7 09-25-2017, 02:44 AM

I forgot to add that the issues I had with my PolyTune were only apparent when I used it on my electric board where the tuner is always in the signal chain (guitar - tuner - rest of pedals etc). When I have used it with my Pz-pre’s tuner out, connecting the preamp to its destination via the balanced outputs I have had no problems.

I am still puzzled why noise should be an issue for you if you are using the tuner out from the Pz-pre unless you mean that it is somehow feeding back into the preamp and thus affecting the regular outputs from the Pz-Pre.

MikeBmusic · #8 09-25-2017, 08:01 AM

I found that if I use my Korg PitchBlack from the tuner-out of the PZ Pre, with it powered by the same 9v supply as my other pedals (PZ uses its own 15v supply of course), it created buzz in the whole system- obviously being transmitted through the 9v supply. Until I get around to adding another 9v supply in the board, I just use a battery in it, and keep it off most of the time.

pieterh · #9 09-25-2017, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

I found that if I use my Korg PitchBlack from the tuner-out of the PZ Pre, with it powered by the same 9v supply as my other pedals (PZ uses its own 15v supply of course), it created buzz in the whole system- obviously being transmitted through the 9v supply. Until I get around to adding another 9v supply in the board, I just use a battery in it, and keep it off most of the time.

As I mentioned earlier, this can happen with non-isolated 9v (or whatever voltage) outputs. The DC10 that the OP is using has 8 isolated outputs plus two more that have two outputs each. I had the same issue using an older Cioks Big John where the outputs were not isolated from each other. As soon as I used a separate power supply (or battery) for the tuner the problem went away. While my pedal board doesn't have my Pz-pre, it does have a Trimode which also uses 15v - the Cioks DC10 is one of the only multi-pedal power supplies that have a 15v output - and I no longer have the tuner-hiss/hum issue. As far as I can tell it is important that the tuner has its own supply from the PS and doesn't share it with any other pedal. On the other hand I am not using a dedicated tuner-output to the tuner as the OP is.

I don't know what PS you use but it may be that they are not isolated from each other, or at least the tuner's power is not isolated.

mandowilli · #10 09-25-2017, 10:17 AM

I have my Tonebone on the 15V power supply that was provided by Radial and 5 other pedals on one 9V supply powered by a Onespot. They are all connected to the Tonebone and it as quiet as can be.

I use the xlr post eq output to the mixer and the 1/4" output to a stage amp.

One thing I did learn, and it was confirmed by radial support is that both imputs are being fed to the tuner output at the same time regardless of which one you have selected.

MikeBmusic · #11 09-26-2017, 07:02 AM

Interesting fact about both inputs to the tuner!

I use a similar-to 1-Spot single 9v power supply to my pedals, not isolated (daisy chained). Wonder what it is about tuners that causes the problem?

pieterh · #12 09-28-2017, 01:55 AM

Although I solved this problem for my setup by buying the DC10 (I also needed the 15v output) I was still curious as to what it is that is causing the noise.

On a forum on the Seymour Duncan forum I read a post that suggested that it could be the pedal leaking clock noise through the power cables - this makes sense as the noise was always worse for me if my Trimode (tube overdrive) was active, and could well be digital white noise made worse by tube gain. My power supply at the time was the Big John which had several outputs but which were not isolated from each other - a sort of common rail system I guess.

As I mentioned earlier, the issue disappeared completely when I used batteries or a separate power supply. On my current setup the tuner has its own output from the DC10 (which should be powered from a grounded supply) and there is no noise from the tuner whether bypassed or in use.