The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-13-2017, 10:55 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,556
Default Trance Amulet: Finally installing!

So, after what seems like an eternity, I finally got around to starting the Trance installation. I am still not 100% done but should have everything finished by today. Just thought I would discuss the installation so far, incase anyone is wanting to try it on their own. I should state that I generally have my pickups installed by a luthier but lately I have been doing my own installations which is far more rewarding.

First off, I really wish Trance would just ship with a plastic jig, even if they provided sizes for the most popular guitars. Making the jig was a bit of a pain. I followed the instructions though and installed the temporary tape to see how I liked the sound. Having one of those mirrors with the adjustable arm is absolutely necessary for this installation IMO, glad I bought one.

I pulled the two transducer wires through the sound hole by taping them to an old guitar string and then plugged them into preamp. I was surprised that the preamp did not have a specified treble/bass side. I guess you can plug the transducers into which ever side you want, as long as you remember what's what, if you decide to play with the blend.

Wouldn't you know it though, I wanted to try the guitar by strumming so I carefully moved the preamp with me and the bass transducer popped off. Surprisingly, even with only the treble transducer still connected, my tone was nice and natural. I have to put the bass back on and try again and then use the permanent tape. The only thing I am deciding about it whether or not to move the treble transducer ever so slightly towards the sound hole. The strings are nice and crisp but I worry that they are to hi-fi. Maybe adding the bass transducer will help balance it all out.

Question, how many of you have played with the trim control?

Edit: I just removed the strings, put the jig back in place and popped the bass transducer on with new white tape. The guitar sounds awesome now. I had thought about moving the treble transducer towards the sound hole a bit but the bass completely smoothed things out. It popped off again though, not sure what's going on. My next attempt will be with the permanent tape.

Last edited by Petty1818; 07-13-2017 at 11:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-13-2017, 10:46 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,337
Default

Trance Amulet Systems Rock! Great to hear you're finally doing it! I'd just apply the transducers with the permanent tape per the Trance recommended initial locations. I've not played with the Trim Control but its only for getting the balance you want between the Bass and Treble sides. With a good installation you'll probably not have to adjust it but you can if you want to bring out a little more Bass. I plug my Bass-side Transducer into the jack that's on the Bass-side of the Preamp when the label on the preamp is facing the bottom of the guitar's top. Please keep us informed!
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2017, 03:35 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,556
Default

I put the permanent tape on last night and applied the clamps. At first the clamps were difficult to work with but I got the hang of it quickly. I made sure to set them up so that the pressure was on the middle of the transducer. I left them on overnight. Putting the pickups in place was a breeze with the jig. I definitely recommend using a thick piece of cardboard as it makes things far easier.

Anyway, I just tested the sound and my guitar sounds awesome. I like the placement so I am not going to play around with it and I probably won't touch the trim control. I just need to now install the preamp/endpin jack and then put the battery pack in place/use the clip to hold the transducer wires. I am excited to actually be able to pick the guitar up normally and really test it but the initial results are impressive. Definitely a big improvement over the Anthem SL.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:28 PM
Groberts's Avatar
Groberts Groberts is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,875
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I put the permanent tape on last night and applied the clamps. At first the clamps were difficult to work with but I got the hang of it quickly. I made sure to set them up so that the pressure was on the middle of the transducer. I left them on overnight. Putting the pickups in place was a breeze with the jig. I definitely recommend using a thick piece of cardboard as it makes things far easier.

Anyway, I just tested the sound and my guitar sounds awesome. I like the placement so I am not going to play around with it and I probably won't touch the trim control. I just need to now install the preamp/endpin jack and then put the battery pack in place/use the clip to hold the transducer wires. I am excited to actually be able to pick the guitar up normally and really test it but the initial results are impressive. Definitely a big improvement over the Anthem SL.
How is string squeak and feedback rejection?
__________________
Martin DC-18E (Ambertone)
Martin HDC-28E
Martin D-18 (2015)
Collings D1 Traditional
Emerald X20
Fender CS '63 Telecaster Custom
Collings I-35LCV
Collings I-30LC
Collings 290
www.heartsoulaz.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:02 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groberts View Post
How is string squeak and feedback rejection?
Hey Gary, I haven't played around with it enough yet to really give a definitive answer but I did not notice any issues with string squeak. To be honest, the only pickup that really bothered me for string squeaking was the Taylor ES2. As for feedback rejection, again I need to play it live but my hope this week is to set up my pa and really give it a test. I am unfortunately leaving for four days on vacation so I won't have time to test it more until I get back. One cool thing was, when I was working on my guitar on my work bench, I plugged the Amulet M in just to see how the string balance was and whenever my wife would walk by, I could hear the thumps through the speaker. This doesn't worry me though in terms of the guitar being too sensitive.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:13 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,337
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Hey Gary, I haven't played around with it enough yet to really give a definitive answer but I did not notice any issues with string squeak. To be honest, the only pickup that really bothered me for string squeaking was the Taylor ES2. As for feedback rejection, again I need to play it live but my hope this week is to set up my pa and really give it a test. I am unfortunately leaving for four days on vacation so I won't have time to test it more until I get back. One cool thing was, when I was working on my guitar on my work bench, I plugged the Amulet M in just to see how the string balance was and whenever my wife would walk by, I could hear the thumps through the speaker. This doesn't worry me though in terms of the guitar being too sensitive.
The Trance systems are quite feedback resistant. Not quite as much as a UST but they're very good at it.
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-15-2017, 01:33 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
The Trance systems are quite feedback resistant. Not quite as much as a UST but they're very good at it.
I will say this though, I used to be very scared about pickup feedback but it no longer bothers me. I have used my K&K equipped guitar and the Baggs Lyric when I had it, on pretty noisy stages with monitors pointed right at us and never had an issue. The Trance I have heard is better than the K&K for feedback so I feel confident it will work. One thing that really impresses me so far is the articulation that the pickup gives and how big it sounds.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:30 AM
migman migman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 66
Default

Instead of using mirrors, I put my iPhone inside the guitar and used FaceTime to see what I was doing during the install. I love technology!For those of you who are not aware, it will take you a couple days for installation. One day for the treble and one day for the bass giving time to set up with clamp installed. They sound great!!
__________________
Fender Eric Johnson Stratocaster
Gibson ES-335 Figured
Gibson Les Paul Deluxe
Gibson Stage Deluxe CS
Guild F-512 Dtar (Tacoma)
Guild D55
Martin 00028 CS
Gibson J-45 CS
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:23 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,709
Default

So far so good. Looking forward to the gig reports.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:19 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,337
Default Alternative Clamping Method For Trance Amulet Installation

Here are a few of my Trance Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT installation photos showing usage of my deep-throat C-clamp method of clamping an Amulet transducer in my Martin HD-28. The lightweight 5-inch Deep-Throat C-Clamp and Nylon clamp cauls are available from Stewart-MacDonald. I find these are much easier to use than the Trance supplied Turn-Buckle clamp.

LOCATION AND CLAMPING OF AMULET

ADDED REAR CLAMP FOAM SUPPORT (OPTIONAL)
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-16-2017, 10:09 AM
Bluesdale Bluesdale is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Colorado Rockies
Posts: 317
Default

Love that big C-clamp. I've installed a couple of these and thought it was a PITA but well worth it. They sound fantastic. I did use the trim pots on the preamp to dial in the sound. For some reason the bass side of my D-28 sounded a little weak due to not getting the transducer perfectly located but the trim pot was enough to correct it.

You're right about they should supply a plastic jig. Seems like that would be easy for them to do. It could have a little slider on it to adjust the distance between them and would work for a lot of guitars.

I also use K&K's but these are a tad better, especially if you have a really nice guitar. Never had feedback problems on either one really. I did notice more string squeak on one of my Trances though. Not sure why on one and not the others. I have 3. One of them came on my Jackson Browne Gibson and that is how I fell in love with them and got more.
__________________
FLAMMANG J-35 (DAZZO)
GIBSON Jackson Browne Model A (Trance)
GIBSON 1956 LG-1 Baxendale conversion (K&K)
Martin 1966 D-21
MARTIN M-30 JORMA 1933 Shaded top (Dazzo)
MARTIN 2009 000-28M Sunburst #444
MARTIN 2009 000-28M Plain top #26
MARTIN 2018 D-18GE Sinker

and...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:54 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by migman View Post
Instead of using mirrors, I put my iPhone inside the guitar and used FaceTime to see what I was doing during the install. I love technology!For those of you who are not aware, it will take you a couple days for installation. One day for the treble and one day for the bass giving time to set up with clamp installed. They sound great!!
I did not find that actually. My installation took two days but that's because I would work on it here and there. I am bad for losing interest! You can easily do the installation in one day. It took me a bit to make the jig and then try the temporary and permanent tape. It's just a bit tedious having to remove the strings, pull the wires out of the endpin jack etc. However, looking back, I could have easily done the jig and installs in 2-3 hours.

As for the clamping of the pickups, I did give it overnight but I did them at the same time. I don't really get the recommendation to do one transducer at a time. I think that's a bit much, even though I feel like I read somewhere that it's recommended.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:56 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Here are a few of my Trance Amulet M Dual Mono M-VT installation photos showing usage of my deep-throat C-clamp method of clamping an Amulet transducer in my Martin HD-28. The lightweight 5-inch Deep-Throat C-Clamp and Nylon clamp cauls are available from Stewart-MacDonald. I find these are much easier to use than the Trance supplied Turn-Buckle clamp.

LOCATION AND CLAMPING OF AMULET

ADDED REAR CLAMP FOAM SUPPORT (OPTIONAL)
It's funny but at first the clamps were a pain but I got used to them quickly. I would just make them roughly the length of one brace to the transducer. I would then put the one end of the clamp on the transducer and slowly bring the other over the brace and then tighten it. I remember at first thinking they would be so difficult to get in place but it wasn't that bad. I do like your idea though, probably much easier if you want a quicker process.

By the way, I seem to remember in a previous thread, you mentioned not liking the cardboard jig as it's easy to touch the adhesive on it when trying to install. I guess this can impact the bond a bit. It's hard to explain but I would come in with the transducers on an angle. I would find one side and push the transducer up against the jig and then twist the other side to get it in place and then stick it down. Again, hard to explain but I found this the best way to avoid any unnecessary touching.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:07 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,337
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
As for the clamping of the pickups, I did give it overnight but I did them at the same time. I don't really get the recommendation to do one transducer at a time. I think that's a bit much, even though I feel like I read somewhere that it's recommended.
It's just a matter of two competing forces on the two Amulets at the same time. As one turn-buckle is increased in force, it removes some pressure from the other turn-buckle and Amulet. I don't think this is really a problem if you go back-and-forth to make sure an adequate amount of force is applied to each turn-buckle/Amulet. My C-clamp method removes these competing forces but adds more weight to the guitar's top if clamping both Amulets at once. This, too, shouldn't be a problem as the guitar's top is strong enough but I've only used one clamp at a time so as not to impose too much stress to the guitar's top.
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:33 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
It's just a matter of two competing forces on the two Amulets at the same time. As one turn-buckle is increased in force, it removes some pressure from the other turn-buckle and Amulet. I don't think this is really a problem if you go back-and-forth to make sure an adequate amount of force is applied to each turn-buckle/Amulet. My C-clamp method removes these competing forces but adds more weight to the guitar's top if clamping both Amulets at once. This, too, shouldn't be a problem as the guitar's top is strong enough but I've only used one clamp at a time so as not to impose too much stress to the guitar's top.
Yeah, that's all I did. I just made sure that the two clamps had roughly the same amount of pressure applied. Mind you, I didn't apply a ton of pressure, just enough that everything was snug. I don't think the amount of pressure applied to these could really impact the other side but I understand the issue.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=