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  #1  
Old 08-23-2015, 08:27 PM
34Roy 34Roy is offline
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Default Octave Pedals for Acoustic Guitars

I would love to hear more about the POG2 or any other of the EHX POGs. I tried the POG2 out at Elderly just yesterday. I had a tough time maintaining equal volumes when switching back and forth from dry/bypass and running the effects. However, all I am really looking for dropping an octave. I know a lot of the guitar players in Celtic bands, the Duhks, John Doyle use similar octave pedals to get the big bass sound. I saw the Duhks earlier this summer with a replacement guitar player and he was not using an octave pedal and their sound dearly suffered. It was almost as though they had lost their signature sound. I ran out of time, at Elderly, but I'm quite certain I wouldn't need the high end POG2 because I was only happy with dropping one octave. I have no use for the other sounds like organ and twelve string. I tried the two octave drop with several amps and nothing really seemed to handle the two octave drop very well. So if anyone has experience with any of the other EHX POGs. I'd like to hear about it.

I have searched web for info relative to the POG with the use of acoustic guitars and I have struck out. Any references or opinions would be welcome. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2015, 09:37 AM
el_kabong el_kabong is offline
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I have no experience with the HOG/POG. I do own and use the Boss OC3 with an acoustic. What I like about it, besides its polyphony, is the low pass filter which easily allows you to limit the effect to the lowest/lower strings selected. Although this filter isn't quite as steep as I'd really like, I find it easy to limit the most obvious octave effect to notes below roughly D4 (4th string open D) or a bit lower, depending on my taste. The good news is that these are quite a bit cheaper than the HOGs.

Oh, one other thing, the OC3 provides separate routing for both the octave and direct signal, both of which I run to a mixer, allowing handy leveling of the octave input. I've experimented with splitting the signal before the pedal in order to process the octave signal with the direct and add back into the mix. This provides a punchier, more natural, bass-like sound. The octave sounds, as you might guess, are not very natural without the rest of the string input. For most circumstances, however, being able to finely mix the octave signal works pretty well.
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Old 08-24-2015, 04:09 PM
34Roy 34Roy is offline
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Thanks for the reply. So I assume your guitar takes up two channels w/ the split signal, one being natural and one running effects. That sounds great to me. I read thru the manual. I also read in the manual that compressors/limiters help the quality of the sound. Do you have any experience with them? I have a Presonus mixer that has a digital compressor built in, I assume that might help. My speakers are small, QSC-K8's, do you foresee problem with the lower octaves? I do play w/ an upright bass player and his bass sound fine.

Thanks for the reply, The OC-3 looks like a pretty decent unit. One of the Celtic players I spoke w/ had the same pedal, but he actually referred to it as the poor man's POG and that his friend John Doyle played thru a POG. I think the OC-3 would meet my needs though. Thanks again.
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Old 08-25-2015, 12:17 AM
el_kabong el_kabong is offline
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At some point, I might actually like to have the HOG, as the budget might allow.

I'm actually running a three-way split of my dry signal, though I'm still experimenting with the point and means of the split. The third line is running to an EXH SuperEgo. Since it sort of provides some similar functions, the HOG could possibly replace both the OC-3 and SuperEgo, but I'm fairly happy with this arrangement.

The dry signal is going through a Rane AP-13 preamp and/or then to a recently acquired Avid Eleven Rack, which serves double duty for my electric guitar, with the same effects setup. The FX loop of the 11R is run through a Vox ToneLab LE, which is serving partly as MIDI controller for the 11R, but also to add a couple of extra FX that the 11 doesn't support, notably "Hold Delay", which I use quite a bit...with the volume pedal controlling the delay input.

The first signal split is off one of the Tonelab's stereo feeds, running through the OC-3 and terminating at the SuperEgo. Separate lines are running from both the octave out and the SuperEgo FX send back to the individual inputs at the mixer, where they are processed via an aux send to a Lexicon MPX-100. The 11R also gives me a stereo signal to the board. My looper is fed via the post-aux send and back into it's own mono channel.

Sounds sort of complicated, to be sure, and I'm always trying to remove or combine functions. In this case, its nice to have a midi controller and the Tonelab is serving adequately, providing a volume pedal, tuner, additional delay, a good uni-vibe (though the 11R has one too), etc.

I've worked with several Presonus mixers and the on-board compressor can definitely be useful. I run my stuff through a DBX drive rack to powered 10" Yamaha speakers, mostly. The DBX provides overload protection and additional EQ options that you should be able to do on the Presonus, I think...does it have a limiter? But, most of the time I don't bother to roll the bass off, but it depends on the circumstance. The K-8's should be fine, you'll just lose a little more bottom.

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Old 08-25-2015, 01:32 AM
induction induction is offline
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Electro-Harmonix also makes the Micro POG and Nano POG, each of which has only one octave up and one octave down. They're nearly identical, except for the physical size, and they each cost about $125 less than the POG2, and about $275 less than the HOG2.
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:14 AM
34Roy 34Roy is offline
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Thanks for the info. El K, you sure do have a lot of electronics, it makes me wonder if a single pedal is going to fit my needs and/or if I'll be opening a new can of worms attempting to achieve a decent sound thru a pedal.
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  #7  
Old 08-25-2015, 09:52 AM
el_kabong el_kabong is offline
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Roy -

Depends on what you're looking to do, I guess.

While I love solo acoustic guitar, there are still times where I want the full orchestration that I might imagine in crafting a piece...with or without the benefit of other players. Because I also dabble with the electric guitar, that created a bit of additional challenge to limit the rig to one rack unit with a mixer, and one pedal board. As it happens, there are other components I've had occasion to add to the mix - midi/synth/percussion stuff, etc. - so it can get as complicated as you let it.

It sounds like you're playing with (at least) one other person, which can ease that burden. What style of music are you doing and what is your motivation?
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  #8  
Old 08-25-2015, 01:43 PM
34Roy 34Roy is offline
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I play in a stringband and I would like to at least emulate some of the more high energy bands that I have heard in the past, Solas, the Duhks.., Like I has said in my original post, I really feel the drop octave is a signature sound for many of these bands. So yes, I will be playing w/ a four piece, so in an attempt to get more work and leaving the upright bass player behind, it might also be effective for a three piece as well. I also play finger style guitar and have three CD's out there, but I don't see using the pedal with that music. I play 30's Gibsons and a 30's 000-18, so with my finger style, I really rely on natural tone of the instruments. I either play thru my StudioLive & K-8's or a Schertler Unico. I feel I pretty much buy as good as I can get, but after reading your gear list I felt pretty much in the dark about electronics.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:51 PM
el_kabong el_kabong is offline
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Duh, you did mention all of that in the OP, must have forgotten, sorry. Well, given all of that, I think the OC-3 would fit the bill rather well. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't even worry about splitting the signal off at all.

The whole point about splitting it off, btw, was partly to help mix it on the board, but also so that any additional and separate processing done of the "bass" was as whole and natural as possible. The octave signal, absent any dry signal, does not sound very much like a bass guitar..., ahhh, about as articulate as a bodhran, so to speak . It is still a benefit to micro-manage its input on the mixer, but not totally necessary.
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2015, 05:19 PM
briggleman briggleman is offline
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I use the EHX Pitch Fork on my board with my acoustic guitar rig. I only really use five (5) pedals, one of which is a sort of mixer/DI box. A tuner, into a EHX Pitch Fork, Danaelectro Cool Cat Chorus ( the older all metal 18 volt late 1990's model) and the Seymore Duncan Vapor Trail delay. All of these are in the effects loop of a Pigtronix Keymaster mixer/DI box. Works really well with my Taylor GA8 with the ES1ver.2 electronics.

On a side note: no need for reverb with the above effects, I will explain in another post, but not now.

Now, for the explanation and experiences with the Pitch Fork. It does wonders and can really open up your sound with an acoustic. I use too main settings on it for most of my playing. Setting One, which is an octave up and down, but I put the switch to down so only the lower octave is playing and by adjusting the mix, its fantastic for filling up the lower end of a acoustic. The other setting I use is the detune setting with the switch set to its middle position. Mix at about 10, this delivers a unique chorus which fills a room with multiple guitars.

This pedal is inexpensive and well worth a look.

I also own the POG2 but find it more useful with my electric solid body guitar endeavors than I do with acoustic. It will do the same thing that the Pitch Fork will, but requires a little more fooling around with controls and understanding what the attack settings are doing. Also much more expensive. However, that being said, I am glad I have both and they will not leave my arsenal of effects.

Brad
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:40 AM
tochiro tochiro is offline
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There's a new pedal by Mooer that is polyphonic and can create sub and upper octaves. It's far less expensive than the EHX pedals and from the first reviews it seems it does the same thing. It's called the Mooer Tender Octaver. I have one on order and will report here when I receive it.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2015, 07:47 AM
el_kabong el_kabong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briggleman View Post
I use the EHX Pitch Fork on my board with my acoustic guitar rig. I only really use five (5) pedals, one of which is a sort of mixer/DI box. A tuner, into a EHX Pitch Fork, Danaelectro Cool Cat Chorus ( the older all metal 18 volt late 1990's model) and the Seymore Duncan Vapor Trail delay. All of these are in the effects loop of a Pigtronix Keymaster mixer/DI box. Works really well with my Taylor GA8 with the ES1ver.2 electronics.

On a side note: no need for reverb with the above effects, I will explain in another post, but not now.

Now, for the explanation and experiences with the Pitch Fork. It does wonders and can really open up your sound with an acoustic. I use too main settings on it for most of my playing. Setting One, which is an octave up and down, but I put the switch to down so only the lower octave is playing and by adjusting the mix, its fantastic for filling up the lower end of a acoustic. The other setting I use is the detune setting with the switch set to its middle position. Mix at about 10, this delivers a unique chorus which fills a room with multiple guitars.

This pedal is inexpensive and well worth a look.

I also own the POG2 but find it more useful with my electric solid body guitar endeavors than I do with acoustic. It will do the same thing that the Pitch Fork will, but requires a little more fooling around with controls and understanding what the attack settings are doing. Also much more expensive. However, that being said, I am glad I have both and they will not leave my arsenal of effects.

Brad
Interesting setup....I've looked at the Pitchfork, though mostly for my electric rig. That Keymaster is worth checking out, thanks for the info.
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2015, 08:24 PM
34Roy 34Roy is offline
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Default Mooer

Thanks for the heads up on the Mooer, I had seen a video on it comparing it to an EHX POG, but the guy was having difficulty w/ line hum whenever he switched to the Mooer. It sounds pretty good in the other videos that I just checked out, but all of the samples were of single string playing. I will need to use chord shapes, but many times what turns out to be power chords, so it will be interesting to see if I can someplace to check it out. It's too bad it can't run off from a battery though.
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2015, 05:19 AM
34Roy 34Roy is offline
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Default Mooer

Looking forward to the review on the Mooer pedal. I was wrong, the pedal does work off from a battery as well. I'm quite confident I'll never use the higher octave, so I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the sub octave w/ chords. I did find a vendor that is willing to sell it with a seven day trial return policy which is cool. Thanks again for the input.
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Old 08-27-2015, 09:40 AM
el_kabong el_kabong is offline
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What the Mooer pedal appears to be missing is a low pass filter on the octave effect, which I find to be as important as polyphony or tracking accuracy. I might wish that the OC-3's LPF was somewhat steeper, but it works pretty well to limit the effect to just the lower notes/strings, leaving the majority of the guitar's signal unaffected, and with a subtle transition in the crossover frequencies. I also prefer to have a separate output for the octave effect, as noted previously.
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