New Martin Day...and a big decision...

[opencee]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Bottom line, I am a bedroom player and regardless of how they sound to the person sitting in front of me, I have to choose the one that sounds better to me from my vantage point while I play. Life is too short to worry about what everyone else hears. Maybe if I performed.

Ha! I rarely have an audience. I'm 6' 4" tall. I think one of the many reasons I love my 00 is that I'm big enough to lean my head forward over the front over that small guitar while playing alone to get a little more of what an audience might hear. I understand why people like sound ports.


opencee

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[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by guitar george

The only way you can truly make an accurate comparison between two guitars is to start by putting a new set of identical strings on each of them. You might get a big surprise.

That brings up another thought I've had. I wonder what percentage of tone comes from strings? Then, on top of that, are strings consistent?

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by opencee

Shades,

Maybe you are just not hearing these guitars as they really sound. From the player's side, my mahogany guitars rumble against my chest. The bass is deep and more dominant. Out front, as a listener, I hear a nice, rich, and more defined bass that is in balance with the mids and highs. I also notice more string separation.

Maybe you should have someone play your guitars in front of you so you can compare.

I followed those threads a month or so ago when Groberts bought the 814 for performing. He considered selling his Collings OM1A in favor of the 814. He did a number of videos comparing the 814, his two Collings OMs (One mahogany and one rosewood.), and a Martin OMC-18e. He did a great job exploring all of them, and even with the limitations in recording and playback, his videos told the story (truth) about their differences, assets, and liabilities.

I think he found his OM1A to be a really fine guitar, and probably the best of his bunch. I'm not sure, but he seemed to have somehow doubted that. Subtle nuances made the difference. That Collings was much more complex than the 814. The 814 sounded deep, but almost in a stand-alone hollow way. As nice as Groberts' 814 was at first listen, it didn't share the complexity through the rest of the tonal spectrum as did his two Collings guitars.

I think the 814 went back to the store. The Martin OMC-18e turned out to have an interesting personality. It surely didn't give up up much, or any, to its Colling equivalent. All four guitars were different, not in quality of tone, but in a way that might boil down to a player's preference.

These things are only evident by playing or recording side-by-side, and sometimes by getting out front of somebody playing yours, or others' guitars.


opencee

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Opencee - VERY nice encapsulation of my personal process. I could not have said it better. Yes, I found the OM1A is actually my BEST guitar ...by a landslide actually. I did return the Taylor 814CE Deluxe to the store. Gotta love GC's 45 day return policy. That afforded me the luxury of making non-rushed comparisons against my own instruments in my familiar home environment.

That said, I agree with 'Shades of Blue'. No matter how a guitar sounds out front, if you are a home/bedroom player, the sound, feel, response and inspiration in the players hands is just as meaningful if not more that what it sounds like in 'front of the guitar.'

In my case, I perform professionally and plan to record, so acoustic projection and balance out front are very important to me.

In my personal comparisons and demo video's, I became acutely aware of the sonic liabilities of the Taylor 814CE Deluxe I was evaluating.

I do believe OM's have more overall midrange complexity, but that may not be everyone's sonic 'true north.' That's OK.

Lastly, the Martin OMC-18E is blowing my mind as a great gigging acoustic amplified and it sounds GREAT acoustically behind the guitar (as the player) and out in front. My Collings OM1A will still win a direct A-B, but I wound up with a cutaway Mahogany OM acoustic that is comfortable to play, cutaway for upper fret access, has extremely user friendly PU/Electronics and a mahogany/sitka sound.

I share all this because I truly believe the OP "Shades of Blue" needs to decide what guitars inspire and work best for him. We may feel the OM-28 is more balanced with better projection and sweeter midrange, but if that doesn't rock the OP's world, it doesn't matter what we think.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

That brings up another thought I've had. I wonder what percentage of tone comes from strings? Then, on top of that, are strings consistent?

PS; In my Demo video's All strings were the same brand and all were essentially brand new. They DO make a difference. I've found some brand are more consistent than others. I tend to stick with Elixir Nanoweb Phosphor bronze for their long life and overall balance.

But I also favor John Pierce PB's and good old D'addario EJ16's. Some like Martin strings but I haven't really given them a fair shake in quite some time.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I share all this because I truly believe the OP "Shades of Blue" needs to decide what guitars inspire and work best for him. We may feel the OM-28 is more balanced with better projection and sweeter midrange, but if that doesn't rock the OP's world, it doesn't matter what we think.

I have to be honest and upfront right now. I have an emotion tie to the Taylor. I can't explain it, and I don't know why I have it. I get sick to my stomach when I think of selling it. Having said that, I do think the OM-28 sounds better...I just do.

I think a lot of it has to do with my daughter. I buy and sell a LOT of guitars. I've slowed down over the years, but my daughter is getting to an age where she notices and she gets upset when I sell guitars because she sees them as more than instruments. Just difficult because I know the Taylor is the one she probably relates to me more than anything.

Is that strange? I mean, if it were just me, I'd sell the Taylor, but being tied to it because my daughter likes it....am I wrong?

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by guitar george

The only way you can truly make an accurate comparison between two guitars is to start by putting a new set of identical strings on each of them. You might get a big surprise.

I gotta disagree with you here George. While one type of string may be ideal for one guitar that same set may kill the voicing of the other.

As an example, I played my D35 for a while with Martin strings exclusively. It was really good. Elixir strings just didn't sound as good. Then I stumbled upon DR Sunbeam 12's and OMG... this guitar just sang. So I thought, if Sunbeam 12's are good 13's must be better. WRONG. The 13's of the same type as the 12's killed the sound.

You may have also read how much I love the Straight Up Strings on my Taylor guitars. While that's great, I tried them on my '81 MIJ Epiphone which would challenge any D28 (and beat it) with Martin strings. But the SUS strings just suck badly on that guitar. I'll play that guitar again in rotation when it's time to put new Martin strings on it. For now it will sit in the case or I'll use it for DADGAD.

So the best way to compare guitars (IMO) is to compare them with a set of the best strings for each individual instrument. If you want a fair fight you have to let each guitar show it's best stuff.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I have to be honest and upfront right now. I have an emotion tie to the Taylor. I can't explain it, and I don't know why I have it. I get sick to my stomach when I think of selling it. Having said that, I do think the OM-28 sounds better...I just do.

I think a lot of it has to do with my daughter. I buy and sell a LOT of guitars. I've slowed down over the years, but my daughter is getting to an age where she notices and she gets upset when I sell guitars because she sees them as more than instruments. Just difficult because I know the Taylor is the one she probably relates to me more than anything.

Is that strange? I mean, if it were just me, I'd sell the Taylor, but being tied to it because my daughter likes it....am I wrong?

At the end of the day "love" conquers all. I also think if you get a pit in your stomach when you think about selling the Taylor, there's your answer. Don't do it. Keep it, love it and be at peace with what it does. It is inspiring to you. Doesn't mean there aren't better guitars. Of course there are. But this has meaning to you and I think that is beautiful my friend. People and family are more important than guitars.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

At the end of the day "love" conquers all. I also think if you get a pit in your stomach when you think about selling the Taylor, there's your answer. Don't do it. Keep it, love it and be at peace with what it does. It is inspiring to you. Doesn't mean there aren't better guitars. Of course there are. But this has meaning to you and I think that is beautiful my friend. People and family are more important than guitars.

Good point. Thanks man.

I will add that my daughter LOVED the zigzag back strip and the herringbone on the OM-28. She said it was fancy! So maybe when my wife asks why I am out a bunch of cash, I can just blame my daughter! lol

[opencee]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Is that strange? I mean, if it were just me, I'd sell the Taylor, but being tied to it because my daughter likes it....am I wrong?

It's not strange, but you may be wrong.

I have five kids and seven grandkids. It's easy to let all that sentiment run your life. This summer, I finally stopped paying for a home phone line. There hadn't been a phone connected to it for years. Every time I mentioned cutting out the home line, our 30-something son, who hasn't had a house phone since he moved out, whined about giving up the phone number he grew up with. I haven't told him it's gone yet.

My wife and I are trying to thin down in the possessions department. Every time we want to get rid of something, one of the kids expresses some sentimental attachment. Often, if I offer them a sentimentally sacred item, they don't want it or don't have room for it. They just want US to keep it.

I don't want to be chained to our possessions anymore.

I've given kids and grandkids three guitars in the last year. Oddly, they weren't all that happy that I did it. I figure I'll let them decide if they want them, and they can make any of the emotional decisions related to their sentimentality.


opencee

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[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by opencee

It's not strange, but you may be wrong.

I have five kids and seven grandkids. It's easy to let all that sentiment run your life. This summer, I finally stopped paying for a home phone line. There hadn't been a phone connected to it for years. Every time I mentioned cutting out the home line, our 30-something son, who hasn't had a house phone since he moved out, whined about giving up the phone number he grew up with. I haven't told him it's gone yet.

My wife and I are trying to thin down in the possessions department. Every time we want to get rid of something, one of the kids expresses some sentimental attachment. Often, if I offer them a sentimentally sacred item, they don't want it or don't have room for it. They just want US to keep it.

I don't want to be chained to our possessions anymore.

I've given kids and grandkids three guitars in the last year. Oddly, they weren't all that happy that I did it. I figure I'll let them decide if they want them, and they can make any of the emotional decisions related to their sentimentality.


opencee

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Wow I can really relate to that. Although my daughter is only 6 I really can tell that our music time together is special. She plays the violin and she calls practice our "band time." By the way, when she becomes a pop star, I'm to quit my job and be her guitarist. Can't wait!!!

I guess the ride is more important than the car....

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I have to be honest and upfront right now. I have an emotion tie to the Taylor. I can't explain it, and I don't know why I have it. I get sick to my stomach when I think of selling it. Having said that, I do think the OM-28 sounds better...I just do.



I think a lot of it has to do with my daughter. I buy and sell a LOT of guitars. I've slowed down over the years, but my daughter is getting to an age where she notices and she gets upset when I sell guitars because she sees them as more than instruments. Just difficult because I know the Taylor is the one she probably relates to me more than anything.



Is that strange? I mean, if it were just me, I'd sell the Taylor, but being tied to it because my daughter likes it....am I wrong?

I sold a guitar my little girl really liked and felt like crap about it. She related to the time we spent playing and singing together. I felt even worse when I realized I missed playing it too. Trust your instincts. :-).

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I sold a guitar my little girl really liked and felt like crap about it. I felt even worse when I realized I missed playing it too. Trust your instincts. :-)

You know the cool thing? She helped me pick out the OM-28. She loves herringbone and zigzag back strips apparently. OH, and she prefers the chocolate colored woods lol.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I will add that my daughter LOVED the zigzag back strip and the herringbone on the OM-28. She said it was fancy! So maybe when my wife asks why I am out a bunch of cash, I can just blame my daughter! lol

You have the opportunity of a teaching moment - show your daughter (and yourself) that the guitar is just stuff, and that you have the ability to recognize that attachment is something that you can control. Don't lock yourself into keeping a guitar for sentimental reasons only.

And yes, I walk my talk. My custom Gurian of 40+ years is for sale because I can no longer play it.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

You have the opportunity of a teaching moment - show your daughter (and yourself) that the guitar is just stuff, and that you have the ability to recognize that attachment is something that you can control. Don't lock yourself into keeping a guitar for sentimental reasons only.

And yes, I walk my talk. My custom Gurian of 40+ years is for sale because I can no longer play it.

Good point. I guess I also need to stop letting a 6 year old enable my guitar purchases as well!!!

[guitar george]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

So the best way to compare guitars (IMO) is to compare them with a set of the best strings for each individual instrument. If you want a fair fight you have to let each guitar show it's best stuff.

I have to agree with you 100% vindibona! But, how does anyone know what the "best strings for each individual instrument" would be? How does anyone know what's on the guitars, now, that are being compared unless the owner put them on himself or the seller can tell him? Even if you do know what strings are on the guitars, how old and used are the strings? A new set of the best strings for each guitar, for comparison, seems like an impossibility.