#61
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I'm not much of a shooter (shootist?) but perhaps altering the rifling or changing the muzzle velocity could decrease the variation. But you're correct that you can't increase precision necessarily by tweaking your scope or sights. That's why the "target" example isn't the best representation of what's really going on...and you should instead reference my probability distribution curve. I guess I'm coming at this from an engineering point of view...which doesn't necessarily jive with colloquial uses of the terms. However, I will insist that my usage of the terms is correct...even if I'm not doing the best job in explaining.
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete |
#62
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Your example of thermometer #2, as was said, can be "averaged" to get close to the actual temperature. The average of your temperatures was 209. Theoretically, if you take 100 measurements...it will be even closer to 207. This is exactly how measurement instruments work (digital thermometers, speedometers, digital volt meters, etc.). They take a bunch of reading (very quickly) then average them to get as close to the real reading as possible. Same reason your digital scale at home takes a few seconds to pop up a reading.
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete |
#63
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In the case of the guitar tuner, you would seem to be working to match an absolute like A440. |
#64
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The averaging would be done to average out noise in the wires, temperature differentials from thermocouple effects from dissimilar metals touching on the circuit board, and random electrical noise (browning motion, for example) in the system. All in an effort to be as accurate as possible when measuring. We're talking in 100ths or 1000ths of a degree. So, in reality...NEITHER of your thermometers would be chosen. At the end of the day, the choice of your measurement device depends on your use case. Both accuracy and precision (and many other factors) are important. The choice is seldom "one or the other". Full disclosure here, I'm an electrical engineer in the "test and measurement" industry. I work for a company that designs measurement instruments.
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete |
#65
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Calibration is always possible, but it can't produce a better result than the precision of the instrument allows. If a tuner can read frequency to within 10 cents, then you will not be able to 'zero' it against a standard (e.g., a tuning fork) better than that. No matter how carefully you calibrate it, next time you check it against the tuning fork, it will read somewhere between 437.5 and 442.5 Hz (10 cents being about 2.5 Hz at 440 Hz, and ignoring the finer statistical points about confidence levels and such). That's a built-in limitation of the particular device. If it's not good enough for your purposes, you need to get a better (meaning more precise) device. ETA: I missed ecguitar44's posts while I was writing, but I agree with his comments. In terms of qualifications, I am both a shooter and a former professional scientist.
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Herb Proud owner of only one guitar --- https://soundcloud.com/bucc5207 "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, 1966 Last edited by Bucc5207; 01-17-2014 at 06:41 PM. |
#66
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I've got a Snark. It's OK.
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#67
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I tune to a piano most the time.
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#68
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Martin 000-28EC '71 Harmony Buck Owens American Epiphone Inspired by Gibson J-45 Gold Tone PBR-D Paul Beard Signature Model resonator "Lean your body forward slightly to support the guitar against your chest, for the poetry of the music should resound in your heart." -Andrés Segovia |
#69
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I'm trying to strike a balance between helping others without overburdening the discussion with too much statistics, theory, or general nerdery. P.S. "Nerdery" was initially autocorrected to "berserk" on my iPad. P.P.S. I haven't a clue what the original point was of this thread.
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete |
#70
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Sorry, Should have read : I've got a Snark. It's OK. . . wabi-sabi
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#71
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Correlation does not imply causation. |
#72
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Something about getting a tuner that is both ultimately accurate and ultimately precise, so that the one person in 10,000 that is capable of noticing it won't leave the room when you play...
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Martin 000-28EC '71 Harmony Buck Owens American Epiphone Inspired by Gibson J-45 Gold Tone PBR-D Paul Beard Signature Model resonator "Lean your body forward slightly to support the guitar against your chest, for the poetry of the music should resound in your heart." -Andrés Segovia |
#73
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I didn't want to point out that the thought experiment was absurd in any real scenario. Fundamentally the points/discussion are applicable. I was actually chuckling to myself imagining a scenario where a system is within 1 degree of exploding and it's being monitored by a dime-store mercury thermometer by some schmo in a lab coat! "Looks like about one-nineteen point... BOOM!!!"
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete |
#74
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Phil
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Solo Fingerstyle CDs: Two Steps Forward, One Step Back (2021) One Size Does Not Fit All (2018) I play Crosby, Emerald, Larrivée, Lowden, Rainsong & Tacoma guitars. Check out my Guitar Website. See guitar photos & info at my Guitars page. |
#75
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Yeah - but one tuner has only one bullet, so why bring precision into the convo? Did you mean six tuners = six bullets? The illustration is precise but not an accurate representation.
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