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  #31  
Old 03-12-2009, 11:32 AM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Originally Posted by mmmaak View Post
I would too, but I'm assuming Howard is talking form the "point of view" of the removed portion
No, I (and on this I think there is at least near unanimity in the lutherie community) describe the shape of the finished brace, not the empty space where wood was removed. But there is an appealing yin/yang quality to your perspective.

So, as was said above: scalloped=concave; "parabolic"=convex; tapered=straight (but diminishing in height toward the rim). These are incomplete descriptions. For one thing, they usually only describe the central portion of the brace; e.g., a "tapered" brace may be scooped in a concave curve at its end. And as I said before, I hear some variations on how 'parabolic' and 'tapered' are used.
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  #32  
Old 03-12-2009, 11:46 AM
Jim_H Jim_H is offline
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This is the bracing on the deep OM I'm building. I didn't use any science when shaping these,and I have very little experience to pull from.

Based on what I've read around web, I've been using "tapered" to describe them, but it's not entirely accurate. I have intentionally avoided the "P" word, because it's not accurate, and is misleading.

Disclaimer: This is the first top I have ever braced. It's probably way over braced (too much mass), but not having any experience to pull from, I decided to err on the side of caution. Please don't confuse this as an example of the 'right' way to brace a top. In fact assume the opposite!


Last edited by Jim_H; 03-12-2009 at 11:56 AM. Reason: added disclaimer
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  #33  
Old 03-12-2009, 11:52 AM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
No, I (and on this I think there is at least near unanimity in the lutherie community) describe the shape of the finished brace, not the empty space where wood was removed.
Understood, Howard. I have been looking at the issue from the wrong perspective all along (see previous post). Thanks for clarifying

hmmmm, with all the hyperbole, perhaps they should be called "hyperbolic" braces instead

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  #34  
Old 03-12-2009, 12:14 PM
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SteveS SteveS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_H View Post
.....Disclaimer: This is the first top I have ever braced. It's probably way over braced (too much mass), but not having any experience to pull from, I decided to err on the side of caution. ......
I was going to suggest that it is over built, but I guess I don't need to.

I hope you don't mind some unsolicited comments.
The x-braces look like they are about 3/8" wide and about 5/8" tall at the intersection. That's wider than I'd use - about .280".
Very nice and clean work you do.
How thick is that Adi top? For an OM, I hope it is at .100" - not too much thicker. It should sound great, don't worry too much, unless your top is over .110" and your x-brace is 3/4" or taller.
The bridge plate looks shifted down towards the heel to me, but I have no way of knowing. Make sure that the front of the bridge is positioned no less than 1/4" behind the front of the bridge plate.
Too much fun. Be careful, it could be habit forming!
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  #35  
Old 03-12-2009, 12:23 PM
Jim_H Jim_H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveS
I hope you don't mind some unsolicited comments.
I don't mind at all. I posted that fully knowing it would be judged (good or bad). That said, I don't want to derail this thread. I would love any feedback or commentary... PM's work too...

The top is a little on the thick side, but more of a concern is thickness and width of the bridgeplate, and the weight (mass) of the braces around the bridgeplate. I wish I had solicited some feedback before I closed the box, but honestly, I'm fairly happy with it the way it is. If nothing else, it's pretty. I'll finish it up and see how it sounds

Thanks,

Jim H
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  #36  
Old 03-12-2009, 12:48 PM
Matt Mustapick Matt Mustapick is offline
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Beautiful work, Jim H!
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  #37  
Old 03-12-2009, 05:37 PM
aragorn aragorn is offline
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Hmmm. "Scalloped" to me means that it has a profile similar to a suspension bridge when viewed from the long side, that is one or more curves in the mid-section, and then getting shorter towards the ends.

"Tapered" means that the edge glued to the top or back is wider in *cross-section* than the opposite edge closest to the interior of the guitar.

In other words, you could have a brace that is both scalloped and tapered.

A "straight" brace is neither - it is about the same thickness from top to bottom, ignoring rounding, and has no scallops carved out along its length.

Am I completely confused here?

Jim's braces above look "straight" to me. The thickness doesn't vary much, and they're also not scalloped. Great looking work though! My Raimundo uses this type in the classical "fan" layout.

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  #38  
Old 03-12-2009, 07:30 PM
66strummer 66strummer is offline
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Thanks for all of the pics, guys......helps to clarify the comments.

Ryan
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  #39  
Old 03-12-2009, 07:44 PM
Jim_H Jim_H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn
Jim's braces above look "straight" to me. The thickness doesn't vary much, and they're also not scalloped. Great looking work though! My Raimundo uses this type in the classical "fan" layout.
The X-braces are pretty much a straight taper with the tops rounded over, but the finger braces and tone bars are an airfoil shape, with the highest point near the x-brace joint. It's hard to tell from that angle, but they do have a curve and taper to them, and are slightly tapered in the profile (towards the top) and have significant roundover at the top.

I have no idea what the correct term for this is. There is no single word that I can use to describe them. I refuse to use the word 'parabolic', just because they aren't, and I don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to follow that model specifically. Curved, Tapered, Rounded... all are sorta accurate, and these terms are less specific than 'parabolic', so I'm more comfortable using them.

I think the problem is we are all trying to use one word to describe something that can't be pinned down that easily. There are too many variables.
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  #40  
Old 03-12-2009, 07:54 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Has anyone or any company ever tried bracing that wasn't straight, like interlocked semi-circles, "S" shapes, combination of straight and curved? May be a dumb question but just curious how far experiments have gone.
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