Taylor ES2 - new system - ALERT... - Page 3

CraigGarnett · #31 07-28-2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeguam

I think it was only mentioned once...but:
With all the EQ adjustments, did anyone attempt to adjust the positioning of the transducers FIRST???

It is my understanding that if the transducers are pressed up against the saddle with too much force, you will NOT get a natural sound. So if you start with an unnatural sound, chances are, there's no EQ that can help you.

I was finding that I had to back off from strumming the low E & A too hard through my Fishman Loudbox so after experimenting with EQ and not getting anywhere I backed off the E & A transducer by a quarter turn and now everything is balanced perfectly.

I might still need to experiment to get the best sound and balance from them but I'm happy that the balance is there now.

Craig

Groberts · #32 07-28-2014, 10:59 PM

I demo'd many Taylors at a local shop through a Fishman Loudbox Performer decently. Started on the Loudbox Mini, but it really did sound 'mini' in comparison, so I played everything thru the Loudbox performer.

I largely prefer the ES2 PU. It sounds dramatically more natural to my ears. But ES1 or ES2 both had the tendency to feedback on the low frequencies. I dialed in the anti feedback notch filter to help out.

Imagine my delight when I plugged in my 2014 Taylor 814Ce into my Allen & heath Zed10FX mixer with a pair of QSC K10 speakers and the sound was significantly better than the Loudbox. As good as the Loudbox is, a great PA and the ES2 are a combination made in heaven. I've done a couple gigs recently and I've received glowing praise about my acoustic guitar tone. Just my .02 worth.

pieterh · #33 07-29-2014, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I really like the fact that more user reviews are coming out and that people are beginning to voice their opinion on how the original ES compares to the ES2. It makes me so glad that I held off on buying the first edition 814ce. Taylor definitely knows how to hype a new product and it can sometimes be hard to not buy into it. I still think the ES2 is a huge improvement over the original ES, which still sounds incredibly bad to me but I don't think it's a vastly huge improvement over other pickups out there (lyric, K&K).

One reason for being apprehensive about a 2014 First Edition purchase is that in a 2014 818e First Edition I recently auditioned, I saw finish flaws that the Taylor QC Department shouldn't have let go! My 2014 816ce is totally finish-flawless in its 3.5-mil, new-finish specification/application.

Taylor has absolutely the best advertising regimen of any guitar maker! Taylor is able to push ALL the buttons of guitarists seeking the ultimate combination of modern-/neo-traditional-/acoustic-electric-/enviromentally-conscious-manufacturing qualities in a guitar they might potentially own. The neat part is that Taylor delivers on all these qualities with the only variable in question amongst many guitarists being: Do I like what I'm hearing compared to another brand? For me, having been a Martin Man for almost four decades, I like what the latest models of Taylor guitars offers, and I back up my statement with having bought five new Taylors within the last eight months.

Regarding the ES 1 (Versions 1, 2, 3), my feeling is that if Taylor were to have extended the fingerboard about an inch, with their under-fingerboard magnetic pickup now potentially being mounted out of what I call the "tubby-tone-pickup-zone," the ES 1, in all its Versions 1, 2, 3, would sound much better and more acoustic-like in combination with its soundboard transducer(s).

Maybe a Taylor melding of ES 1/ES 2 properties will be in future offerings?

Regards,

SpruceTop

This is what I've been saying for years, the ES is a great system on paper, but severely let down by the neck pickup placement giving it those unwelcome electric guitar neck pup qualities.

Is there anyone here who retrofitted the ES with a sound hole mag pup who can chip in with a review?

paulin · #34 07-29-2014, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Is there anyone here who retrofitted the ES with a sound hole mag pup who can chip in with a review?

I so disliked the ES1 in my 2011 Taylor 814ce that I put a Baggs M80 in via a TruPlug end plate which replaces the stock oval battery/jack assembly. It sounds so much better to me and I have no feedback problems in band performances.

DavidE · #35 07-29-2014, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcn100

On that amp, I found the "old" ES system crisp, agile and lovely.

To each his own, but those are three words I would never ever use to describe any version of the "old" ES system and boy did I try!. Ugh. Yuk. Someday I'll try the new ES system, but I'm in no rush as I have enough old pre-ES Taylors to keep me quite happy. The few I owned with various versions of ES were just awful plugged into anything; even with the K4. To my ears.

Now my barndoor Fishman Aura system into my Fishman Loudbox 100 really isn't too bad at all! :-)

krmitbug · #36 03-21-2015, 10:59 PM

Almost a year later.... I agree with your assessment.... Feedback with the ES2 is a very noticeable issue with my new 816...... When I get it under control I don't like the sound..... Very "hot" system compared to the original... considering sending it to the factory for an ES1 retrofit..... Love the guitar.. not the pickup.

AZ Cardinal · #37 03-22-2015, 12:45 PM

I still cant believe they didn't put a mic under the bridge with the new system..

Petty1818 · #38 03-22-2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ Cardinal

I still cant believe they didn't put a mic under the bridge with the new system..

Why would they?

AZ Cardinal · #39 03-22-2015, 08:52 PM

Because the ES has never sounded like an acoustic. You will notice that the pickups of late, the Anthem, the Lyric, and K n K's, all use a MIC.

I installed a Lyric with the ES of my Taylor Baritone...

Sounds incredible.

That's why.

B

Petty1818 · #40 03-22-2015, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ Cardinal

Because the ES has never sounded like an acoustic. You will notice that the pickups of late, the Anthem, the Lyric, and K n K's, all use a MIC.

I installed a Lyric with the ES of my Taylor Baritone...

Sounds incredible.

That's why.

B

Are you referring to the original ES or the ES2? The ES2 sounds very natural and is one of the best pickups on the market. It has a very mic-like characteristic already. IMO adding a mic would not benefit this system as it's already very natural. I could see major feedback issues with a mic.

Citing the Anthem and Lyric isn't really saying much as they are designed by the same manufacturer. Putting a mic under the bridge is not something other companies are doing. Also, the K&K can come with a mic but it's not standard.

AZ Cardinal · #41 03-22-2015, 10:17 PM

I do not think the original ES or ES2 sounds Acoustic..
Most acoustic players want their acoustics to sound as "Acoustic" as Live possible...

Has always been a struggle, and always will be.

Now, I am not saying the ES or 2 does not sound "good"..

I think its does.

Just saying, when I put the Mic of the Lyric in the Taylor, in concert with the ES, it sounded out of this world.

B

Vancebo · #42 03-23-2015, 12:49 AM

I have tried many ES2 equipped guitars. Not all come out the same. For one reason or another some you can set flat and sound great others you have to EQ the snot out of them to sound good. Same can be said for the Lyric and K & K. The ES 2 does sound very acoustic to my ears like having a mic. I wouldn't want to add a mic to an ES2. I would want to add a mic to an ES1 v. 3. That would be a great combination.

BTW, just borrowed an 814 from the local shop for a couple of days. With my Venue, I had to cut a considerable slice at 400hz and a little at 1khz. Boosted the bass knob and a hint with the presence knob and it was pretty outstanding. Played at Church with it. Functioned well. Has more beef than my Lyric equipped axe that I normally use.

Petty1818 · #43 03-23-2015, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I have tried many ES2 equipped guitars. Not all come out the same. For one reason or another some you can set flat and sound great others you have to EQ the snot out of them to sound good. Same can be said for the Lyric and K & K. The ES 2 does sound very acoustic to my ears like having a mic. I wouldn't want to add a mic to an ES2. I would want to add a mic to an ES1 v. 3. That would be a great combination.

BTW, just borrowed an 814 from the local shop for a couple of days. With my Venue, I had to cut a considerable slice at 400hz and a little at 1khz. Boosted the bass knob and a hint with the presence knob and it was pretty outstanding. Played at Church with it. Functioned well. Has more beef than my Lyric equipped axe that I normally use.

I have found the exact same thing. The ES2 does not seem to be consistent from guitar to guitar. However, when it's right, it sounds fantastic. It has that mic-like quality but with the enhanced bass which is great for live use.

The ES1 on the other hand is such a different design that it's difficult to even mention it in the same post as the ES2. IMO the ES1 did not sound very natural and was much closer to a magnetic style pickup.

I am going to install the Lyric in my Taylor for fun to see what I think of it. I believe that I will miss the enhanced bass that comes from piezo and magnetic style pickups but it's worth a shot.

Rick Shepherd · #44 03-23-2015, 10:37 PM

I can't compare the Later ES systems to my 2003 version, by my ES sounds awesome through my PA.

krmitbug · #45 06-26-2015, 05:03 AM

I have 2 guitars I use with the ES1... always found that they sounded better and were easier to manage (feedback) when playing large venues compared to Fishman and other types....

I purchased a 2015 816 with ES2.... I did like the bass (not sure if that was the pickup or the larger guitar probably a bit of both)..... The largest problem was feedback.. large venues... sometimes I couldn't control it... I then resorted to an external EQ but still wasn't happy with the sound and the complication.

So I sent the guitar back to the factory and had the system replaced with the ES1.. around $500... Guitar sounds great now... I guess it's a matter of preference.. but no feedback issues, no extra eq... keep it simple....

One note, Taylor's repair shop is great...