need some direction

[cloud90]

Firstly, , forgive me if i have posted in the wrong section or so. To start off, i have always wanted to play the guitar. I have been on and off it for the past 2 years. My problem, is kind hard to explain. I have learnt everything from youtube, so far. I can play a few songs and i have learnt some theory (like chords and stuff)off youtube channels such as justinsandercole and lypur (piano/music theory). It's all been good and all, but i just feel like i am not being able to know the guitar, properly. Like, learning the theory stuff from justinsandercole's vids are good and all but i just feel like i'm learning these ideas but i just don't know how or if i will ever implement them (you guys prob think im crazy lol), esp as i am going along. For example, i would learn a chord or something and practice it etc, but then after, i would be like "now, what? what do i do with it?"
I have learnt songs off youtube but i feel, like im only learning how to play songs. I feel like i only know the guitar through song tutroials off youtube. Other than that, i don't feel like i know, know the guitar (if that makes sense). You know how some guys can just randomly sit at a guitar and just play about and make up something that sounds alright, i would love to know the guitar enough to reach that stage. It's like when i approach a guitar, i feel limited as i don't feel like i know, the guitar properly and i don't know how to do anything but those 3 or 4 songs i learnt off youtube. Or maybe, it's all in my head. Please, help guys
My main aims are; to be able to get to that stage as mentioned above -to be KNOW (as mentioned above)and be able to Play the guitar -to know how to play the guitar -to be able to make my own proper songs using the guitar -maybe to learn how to play via ear
I dunno, maybe i just need some sort of direction or something. I really want to be good at the guitar. I used to practice at least 2 hrs a day. I just need help, guys. I am ready to put in the work in.
Thanks!
Much appreciated. Oh yeah, lessons are out of the question as i can't afford them atm lol

To sum up my problem, it's like i am learning some theory but don't know how to apply it and at the same time i'm learning songs but don't feel like i'm getting anything out of them.

[Dirty Bill]

Check out Guitar Tricks lessons. You need to find out what you want to play,then learn how to do it. It's not costly to join,and they have some free lessons.

You might find that 30 minutes a day will be more productive,rather than 2 hours a day. Just do it every day. Good luck.


http://www.guitartricks.com/v2/index.php

[nhsdpl]

Harmonized scales is what you need to learn, something like this;





Cheers.

[rick-slo]

There is playing fully developed songs, there is adlibbing, there is jazz adlibbing, there is lead guitar work, more stuff, and various combinations of things.

For me it has mostly been about learning songs, good songs. However you could give some serious study of chord progressions, and the scales to play over them (the hard part is coming up with stuff that sounds good). You could expand your bag of riffs (which is what most people rely on for "spontaneous" playing, even jazz players).

In other words I know of no simple answer that works for everyone. Decide on your major foci.

[Random1643]

Well, I have just one more opinion, another suggestion. Get out and play. Practice is fine, but one way to practice is to jump out into the world and entertain.

I had a fair amount of experience playing in rock, folk, vocal bands as a young man, but then stopped playing music for 20 years. Later in life, my daughter and I played as an instrumental duo for a while then she went off to college and I decided I'd play as a solo musician - something I had no experience in.

There was a nearby cafe just getting started. I offered to play for tips, coffee and a meal every Saturday from 9am to 1pm. The owner took me up on it. We were both just getting started. Things evolved from there in terms playing gigs, but that experience of playing in a low pressure situation for a few hours every week gave me a great platform to build on, a way to establish confidence, a need to build an evolving set list, a way frankly to get out of my living room.

[ameetnsharma]

I think writing and recording full songs is a good way to reinforce theory you've learned. If you want to write songs, start right away.

The recording is important if you're learning something like rock guitar... which works more in a band setting less in a solo setting... if you have a keyboard or something like garage band... you can make the backing tracks (bass drums)... and then record your guitar on top.

If your song is carried by just 1 guitar... or just guitar and voice (i.e. something that can be played live by 1 person)... it's not so important to record...

Reason I say "full" songs is... to get an intuition of how chords, leads and baselines work together.

ie: if you're just doing lead guitar lines... without the rest of the song there, it's not as useful.

I think the styles of guitar, where you can play lead, chords, and bass together... like finger style guitar... allow you to learn much more about the guitar... I know working on ragtime blues (playing open positions finger style with the CAGED system) really gave me a good feeling... this style gives a lot of bang for the buck... you can get a lot of different songs by learning a few positions...

[ameetnsharma]

Some other ideas...

playing a lot of music within the same form is helpful... I think blues is great for this... if you do this a lot... you'll be able to just play a blues in A... or a blues in E... the chords are really the same as you've learned before... you're just changing the melody notes.

I like these type of videos:





where you're learning some very useful general ideas... that can be applied easily... now if you want to write a new blues song in E... all you're doing is tweaking some things from this video... change the melody a bit... change the rhythm a bit... and you've got a new blues.

EDIT: Also, learning the fretboard is helpful... what I mean is being able to look anywhere on the fretboard and instantly know what that note is... and also being able to find any note on a string instantly... this a slow process take it a bit of the fretboard at a time...

[cloud90]

Originally Posted by ameetnsharma

I think writing and recording full songs is a good way to reinforce theory you've learned. If you want to write songs, start right away.

The recording is important if you're learning something like rock guitar... which works more in a band setting less in a solo setting... if you have a keyboard or something like garage band... you can make the backing tracks (bass drums)... and then record your guitar on top.

If your song is carried by just 1 guitar... or just guitar and voice (i.e. something that can be played live by 1 person)... it's not so important to record...

Reason I say "full" songs is... to get an intuition of how chords, leads and baselines work together.

ie: if you're just doing lead guitar lines... without the rest of the song there, it's not as useful.

I think the styles of guitar, where you can play lead, chords, and bass together... like finger style guitar... allow you to learn much more about the guitar... I know working on ragtime blues (playing open positions finger style with the CAGED system) really gave me a good feeling... this style gives a lot of bang for the buck... you can get a lot of different songs by learning a few positions...

So, would you suggest that i go straight to writing songs and learning songs? Maybe, that will help me out. Sorry, to sound like a newb but isn't finger style just normal strumming on a guitar ? Or is it something else? Quick question, I was just looking at tabs of songs and stuff. And one thing is have noticed is that some of them don't use full chords. For exmaple, i saw a song and it uses finger 3 and 2 of the g chord and then finger 1 and 3 of the f major chord. How is this done? Do, they just guess what sounds alright or do they actually use chords? I have noticed most songs don't actually use the full form fo the chords but half of the full forms etc.

i mean, i always hear people saying you need to use chords to make songs but what about like i mentioned, above?

Also, i understand some songs have (not sure of the accurate term lol) a individual note picking bit in the song. How do artists make them? Is it all guess?
1.23- 1.24 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08osAgW4djo

Also here; ike mike does it here in between the strums;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25DIHP_pcok

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by cloud90

So, would you suggest that i go straight to writing songs and learning songs? Maybe, that will help me out.

From the rest of the post I would say no to this idea, except perhaps a little dabbling in it. Get a teacher to show you some basics. Learn a bunch of tunes, fingerstyle tunes if that is the music you want to be able to play.

[cloud90]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

From the rest of the post I would say no to this idea, except perhaps a little dabbling in it. Get a teacher to show you some basics. Learn a bunch of tunes, fingerstyle tunes if that is the music you want to be able to play.

Unfortunately, i cannot afford to get a teacher atm. So, i'm relying Solely on the Internet

[cloud90]

Will learning from the alfreds basic guitar book, help me with mith my situation? I have heard it s a very good book

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by cloud90

So, would you suggest that i go straight to writing songs and learning songs? Maybe, that will help me out.

Yes. Find a song you really like, and learn it - any way you can. (youtube lessons, listening to recordings, looking at songbooks...)
Too hard? Find an easier one. You need to be able to play it the whole way through, or you will probably end up with that sense of pointlessness again.

If you think you have ideas for songs, definitely worth trying to develop them. But not everyone is a songwriter. Putting notes and chords together is a craft, like any other. If you find you have tunes running through your head, or you naturally make stuff up at random when you practice, you could be a songwriter. But you learn the craft by learning lots of other people's songs, and looking at how they're put together - sometimes stealing ideas you like.

Originally Posted by cloud90

Sorry, to sound like a newb but isn't finger style just normal strumming on a guitar ? Or is it something else? Quick question, I was just looking at tabs of songs and stuff. And one thing is have noticed is that some of them don't use full chords. For exmaple, i saw a song and it uses finger 3 and 2 of the g chord and then finger 1 and 3 of the f major chord. How is this done? Do, they just guess what sounds alright or do they actually use chords? I have noticed most songs don't actually use the full form fo the chords but half of the full forms etc.

Right. Strummng is one thing, fingerstyle another. Look at those Stefan Grossman videos - that's fingerstyle (one kind). Classical guitar is fingerstyle. Most folk guitarists play some kind of fingerstyle.
It's tougher than strumming, but sounds a whole lot more interesting.

Originally Posted by cloud90

i mean, i always hear people saying you need to use chords to make songs but what about like i mentioned, above?

Well, it's still chords, they're just broken up a little more, much in the way you're saying.
You don't need to strum full chords all the time, it's just an easy way to get some rhythm going, to accompany a vocal. Fingerstyle can be a complete performance in itself, with no vocal. Strumming on its own is nothing without a vocal (or some other lead instrument playing the tune)

Originally Posted by cloud90

Also, i understand some songs have (not sure of the accurate term lol) a individual note picking bit in the song. How do artists make them? Is it all guess?
1.23- 1.24 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08osAgW4djo

He's filling in between strums, using open strings mostly.
It's not guesswork, although it can be somewhat random. It comes from knowing the chords really well, and knowing what other notes will work between the chords. A lot of that can be learned by trial and error, just messing around with chords and open strings till you find something that sounds good. That's during practice, of course. You remember the things that work, and keep them.

Originally Posted by cloud90

Also here; ike mike does it here in between the strums;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25DIHP_pcok

That's a little more worked out. He's using "hybrid picking", where he's using a pick (between thumb and index) for up and down strokes, but also occasional upstrokes with other fingers (middle at least, maybe ring). He's picking individual strings out of the chords, while keeping a good steady beat (that's what's really critical).
Picking the individual notes of a chord rather than strumming is known as "arpeggiating" or "playing arpeggios".
When I say "worked out", he may not have planned every single note he's playing, but he will have practised that piece a lot, and also done a lot of work in that style - so he can approach any chord sequence and treat it the same way.
As long as you keep a solid rhythm going, and have the chords down cold (look how controlled his left hand is, as well as his right), it doesn't matter too much which strings you pick - many different patterns can work.

[cloud90]

Or the alfred basic guitar book series?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by cloud90

Or the alfred basic guitar book series?

They look like good books to me, if somewhat classically based.
I suggest you study the contents pages (on amazon) and decide if you really need the whole series. I suspect you may already be familiar with what's covered in the first couple of books. Even if you can't read notation, book 3 reminds you of the essentials.

Bear in mind no single book (or series!) covers everything. I'd say take a look at as many as you can, to get a feel for which ones seem to cover what you're most interested in. Be prepared to buy 3 or 4 (different authors).

Remember the most important learning resource is music itself. Books, DVDs, youtubes, etc, can end up being a sidetrack from the real deal.
As I said in reply to your post on another site, I had no lessons myself (and there was only ONE - rather poor - tutor book available when I began), and I learned the most valuable things from attempting to learn - and transcribe - records by ear. That was difficult then (with vinyl, assisted by tape decks), but today it's a whole lot easier with slowdowners, which are like audio microscopes, helping you listen more closely and hear more detail.
I totally recommend Transcribe:
http://www.seventhstring.com/
- free for a month, no limitations, so plenty of time to decide if you like it enough to pay (you'd be a fool not to, IMO ).
It really makes you feel you're getting inside the music, inside the heads of the people playing it.

In short, there's teaching aids of all kinds, and all of them can work together, as long as you make the connections

[cloud90]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Yes. Find a song you really like, and learn it - any way you can. (youtube lessons, listening to recordings, looking at songbooks...)
Too hard? Find an easier one. You need to be able to play it the whole way through, or you will probably end up with that sense of pointlessness again.

If you think you have ideas for songs, definitely worth trying to develop them. But not everyone is a songwriter. Putting notes and chords together is a craft, like any other. If you find you have tunes running through your head, or you naturally make stuff up at random when you practice, you could be a songwriter. But you learn the craft by learning lots of other people's songs, and looking at how they're put together - sometimes stealing ideas you like.
Right. Strummng is one thing, fingerstyle another. Look at those Stefan Grossman videos - that's fingerstyle (one kind). Classical guitar is fingerstyle. Most folk guitarists play some kind of fingerstyle.
It's tougher than strumming, but sounds a whole lot more interesting.
Well, it's still chords, they're just broken up a little more, much in the way you're saying.
You don't need to strum full chords all the time, it's just an easy way to get some rhythm going, to accompany a vocal. Fingerstyle can be a complete performance in itself, with no vocal. Strumming on its own is nothing without a vocal (or some other lead instrument playing the tune)
He's filling in between strums, using open strings mostly.
It's not guesswork, although it can be somewhat random. It comes from knowing the chords really well, and knowing what other notes will work between the chords. A lot of that can be learned by trial and error, just messing around with chords and open strings till you find something that sounds good. That's during practice, of course. You remember the things that work, and keep them.
That's a little more worked out. He's using "hybrid picking", where he's using a pick (between thumb and index) for up and down strokes, but also occasional upstrokes with other fingers (middle at least, maybe ring). He's picking individual strings out of the chords, while keeping a good steady beat (that's what's really critical).
Picking the individual notes of a chord rather than strumming is known as "arpeggiating" or "playing arpeggios".
When I say "worked out", he may not have planned every single note he's playing, but he will have practised that piece a lot, and also done a lot of work in that style - so he can approach any chord sequence and treat it the same way.
As long as you keep a solid rhythm going, and have the chords down cold (look how controlled his left hand is, as well as his right), it doesn't matter too much which strings you pick - many different patterns can work.

Thanks for the really informative post. I think you have really cleared a few things for me. I think, maybe i was a bit too impatient. I feel like i have got a fresh new approach, now. My overall aims are to learn to play a lot of songs on the guitar and eventually make my own songs on the guitar.

Yeah, i usually do catch myself making melodies and stuff in my head. I already, know a potential problem is how am i going to be able to transpose the melody in my head, unto a guitar.

Ah, thanks for clearing up that thing about the chords, for me. That has been bugging me for quite sometime. I always wondered why they used those sort of half chords (forgive me for my lack of terminology lol). I was thinking of using full chords to make songs but i thought it might sound boring and kinda predictive.

Double thanks for clearing up the whole issue regarding appregio's.I have always loved it when acoustic guitar songs have a little appregio bit. Tbh, i would love to make a song with a little appreigated bit to it. I know it's prob nothing special to you guys haha.

So i guess my aim now is;
-to learn as many songs as possible
-to make my own songs after learning as many songs as possible. (esp with an appregio bit haha)