Mics, preamps and technique...

[DesolationAngel]

I know these questions come up fairly regularly but, sometimes, I see it as useful to do a quick poll as to the current 'state of the art'. So, that being said, what's everyone using? I'm only really interested in mics, preamps and techniques.

I'm currently auditioning a bunch of mics, and preamps (probably 500 series) are coming next...

Right now the Josephson C42's are floating my boat (although I will be testing against KM184s and a Mojave MA-100 this weekend). I'm also dabbling with ORTF, XY, AB and M/S recording at the moment, and enjoying every minute.

You? Any Peluso users? Advanced Audio? Cascade? ShinyBox? Oktava? Avantone? Telefunken? Beyer?

[rick-slo]

Main acoustic guitar mikes I use are Microtech Gefell M295s. The preamp I have been using the last few years is a NPNG DMP-2NW. The AD I have been using is a Mytek Stereo96 ADC

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Main acoustic guitar mikes I use are Microtech Gefell M295s. The preamp I have been using the last few years is a NGNG DMP-2NW. The AD I have been using is a Mytek Stereo96 ADC

Wow. I feel like I've researched a hundred different chains in the past few weeks... and NPNG is a whole new one to me! Are you using a stereo pair of the Gefells?

[Mbroady]

Currently have a Neumann M149 and an AKG 414 running through a great river Pre-amp. Surprisingly enough, I recorded an acoustic track with an EV dynamic mic through the great river pre. In some ways it is more usable then using the high end condenser mics. I live in an apartment in the city. And even though I have some sound treatment in the room, the condenser mics just pic up to much of the ambient city noise. Everything from the street noise to a resident building hum. The EV is a super cardiod and I hear no (hardly any) noise other then my guitar.

I am now a Firm believer that a great pre-amp can do wonders on an inexpensive dynamic mic.

[DesolationAngel]

I hear so many good things about Great River preamps...

[alohachris]

Aloha Martin,

The whole signal chain must be planned & carefully put together. The space must be treated. An infinite amount of mic placement experimentation yields the most consistent recording results in the longrun.

This thread from a coupla years back will give you an idea of what's in use in the areas you're investigating:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...ecording+setup

My longtime favorite "got-to" mic & preamp combo for recording solo acoustic guitar pieces is: a matched pair of Schoeps CMC6 mic preamps w/ the MK41 hypercardioid capsules (I like other Schoeps capsules too: MK2, MK4, MK8 & MK22 - love Schoeps' interchangeable modular system) combined w/ a Pendulum MDP-1a two-channel tube mic preamp. Totally clear, transparent, quiet, detailed, natural, unhyped frequencies & musical.

I've experimented with mic placement a lot over many decades. The one miking pattern I come back to (again, always in a treated space) is the A-B SDC matched pair. It gives me the most consistent results. But I have other patterns that work well too using other types of mic's & sometimes 3 or 4 mic configurations. Mid-Side pattern using a Ribbon/SDC mic combo is one to explore that I also like. Very direct sound for lack of a better word.

Occasionally, I record a track in A-B with the Schoeps/Pendulum combo & another track using an AEA R-84 Ribbon mic through an AEA RPQ preamp w/ higher gain for a Ribbon mic. That can give you many choices later when you edit & add reverb or FX. When you master, it can yield a very complete sound for solo acoustic guitar, IMO.

alohachris

PS: Without adequate room treatment, mic placement experimentation potential is severely curtailed. And without great monitors, the subtleties of great mic's are somewhat lost & unrevealed, IMO.-alohachris

[DesolationAngel]

Aloha, Chris

Thanks for that... yes, I've seen that thread and (I think) various, very informative, other posts of yours over on other sites... the reason I ask, again, is because the 'state of the art' changes from time to time; there's been several NAMM's, AES's and Musikmesse's since then and it doesn't hurt to find out whether people have come up with more favourable tools. Telefunken, for instance, launched some very interesting M60FET condensers at AES last year, Manley introduced a 4 ch tube preamp at NAMM this year etc.

Cheers (and thanks again for your posts elsewhere)

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by alohachris

a matched pair of Schoeps CMC6 mic preamps w/ the MK41 hypercardioid capsules (I like other Schoeps capsules too: MK2, MK4, MK22 - love their modular system) combined w/ a Pendulum MDP-1a two-channel tube mic preamp. Totally clear, transparent, detailed & unhyped.

I was increasingly interested in the Pendulum as a flavour until I decided that going 500 might serve me better for the time being. The Schoeps mics are, realistically, beyond my budget (and possibly talent), a pair of CMC6's up here are about 4000 CAD...

[alohachris]

Aloha Martin,

Good Points as usual. I kinda cashed out of most of my recording mic's & gear a coupla years back & admittedly, have not been keeping up with the state of the art in that area as I had for decades.

However, I submit that a pair of Schoep's 641's, Microtech-Gefell M295's, or Brauner VM-1 mic's (or classic's like vintage U-87's, etc. ) played through a Pendulum MDP-1a, A Designs Pacifica or Great River MP-2NV, API 3124+, Forsell or similar quality mic preamp will continue to provide among the best potential/sonic results for recording acoustic guitars for many years to come, no matter what new mic's appear.

Apogee's Quartet is also an excellent more affordable choice for adding more mic channels through pristine sounding onboard mic preamps. And it can handle the gain requirements of Ribbon mic's. The Mojave MA-200/or 300 are great less-expensive mic's on acoustic guitar as well.

I still think that good room treatment & great mic placement for a given space are bigger factors in our home acoustic recordings than the gear, high-end or not. What type's of placement have you been experimenting with, Martin?

Guess it's time for me to take an LA trip to see what's new in home recording.

All the best, Martin.

alohachris

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by alohachris

However, I submit that a pair of Schoep's 641's, Microtech-Gefell M295's, or Brauner VM-1 mic's (or classic's like vintage U-87's, etc. ) played through a Pendulum MDP-1a, A Designs Pacifica or Great River MP-2NV, Forsell or similar quality mic preamp will continue to provide the best recorded sound for recording acoustic guitars for many years to come.

You're probably not far off the mark... I think the only difference in coming times is the form factor of the products (like RND's new Portico half rack stuff) and cost factors. Even Manley are heading into the mid-range cost arena.

I'm curious to know your thoughts on the Pacifica, I was, in my general sketch for a 500 series 'lunchbox', considering a pair of A Designs P1's as one flavour of preamp (and maybe an RND 511 for the other pair).

Apogee's Quartet is also an excellent choice for adding more mic channels through pristine sounding onboard mic preamps. And it can handle the gain requirements of Ribbon mic's.

I have a Quartet as my main interface, it really is a stellar piece of gear... but I'm looking to add some flavour with other preamps for other styles of guitar/other flavours of acoustic and electric music.

And, on the subject of ribbons, I have a pair of Royers (a 101 and a 121) rented and waiting for some playtime this weekend...

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by alohachris

I still think that good room treatment & great mic placement for a given space are bigger factors in our home acoustic recordings than the gear, high-end or not. What type's of placement have you been experimenting with, Martin?

I've recently been experimenting with X/Y and M/S. As for treatment, we lucked out in finding a house to rent that has a dedicated, partially treated, mostly soundproofed room. I have packing blankets which hang as a curtain, mid-room, and drop down from the furniture, each side, creating a sort of treated space. Then I sit with my back to the 'treated' door and talk to Logic through the iPad remote app... it seems to be working out quite nicely, so far.

[alohachris]

Aloha Martin,

I think it's really cool that you are doing a shoot-out this weekend. I used to rent mic's & preamps from all over the world for weekend shoot-outs just so I could hear pro-level stuff on my modest home rig. Glad to see you're into that approach too. It was the only way for me being isolated in the Islands with no pro gear suppliers except studio's.

How do you like the Royer 122's? For the reasons you mentioned about asymmetrical response of front/back on those, I had a tougher time dialing in that particular mic.

You were lucky on getting that partially treated space. Moving blankets really DO help the mid-range. Adding 2-4 DIY broadband absorbers (front & back) would tighten up your basses & lower mid freq's for sure. And provide more clarity in M-S & facilitate experiments into placements like ORTF & double A-B Spaced Pairs, etc.

I also flirted with the 500 series lunchbox technology, albeit briefly. However, many engineers told me that, despite its space-saving & cheaper components, it was not as great sonically as first suspected & that many had returned to full-size rackable gear models again, like the Pacifica. The physics of any kind of small gear always seem to lose out to full size, IME. Like Zoom recorders. They sound & perform better as they get larger.

I love the A Designs's Pacifica preamp & looked at the P-1's when considering 500's. When I jettisoned most of my mic's & preamps awhile back, I just couldn't part with the full-size Pacifica. I think that is a great & classic mic preamp design/config. It worked with all of my mic's very well, with all kinds of instruments & voices. I got a used one for around $1100 in near-mint shape. Really great for acoustic guitar recordings.

I'll tell you Martin, a fantastic mic/preamp combo is playing through the Peluso P-28 Tube SDC combined w/ a Pacifica. Check that out Martin! I think there are some samples of that combo at the Soundpure site that are useful. I really like that preamp! And that mic! And I owned a pair for around five years. I'd audition those for sure. sdelsolray really liked the P-28 as well & it's not crazy expensive either. Check it out. And have a blast this weekend auditioning stuff. Too much fun!

http://www.soundpure.com/p/peluso-p-...microphone/881

alohachris

[Ty Ford]

DA,

I think that if you want your guitar to sound the way it sounds in free air that you will find the KM 184 unrealistically bright.

I know you said the CMC641 are too expensive, but they are lower in price right now in the US than they have been for sometime. @ $1600 each.

Value is somewhat relative. If you saved for a few more months, then you could probably afford a pair.

I'm expecting the beyer MC940 and MC950 in for a review soon. It'll be interesting to hear how they do against the CMC641.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

I know you said the CMC641 are too expensive, but they are lower in price right now in the US than they have been for sometime. @ $1600 each.

I didn't say that they are too expensive... and $1600 US is still $4000 CAD for a pair

Value is somewhat relative. If you saved for a few more months, then you could probably afford a pair.

Value is, indeed, relative; good value, to me, means spreading the money I'm prepared to spend on having several different flavours of 'very good' stuff rather than one flavour of anything. I feel the same with my guitars, which is why I have a selection of pleasingly nice stuff instead of one < insert personal choice here >. So, for $4000 I could get a pair of Gefells and a pair of Peluso tubes (or Mojaves etc).

I'm expecting the beyer MC940 and MC950 in for a review soon. It'll be interesting to hear how they do against the CMC641

I hear good things about the 930s although I can't seem to find any close by to be able to try. (Did you mean 930 or are you trying the 840 LDC?). Be interested in hearing your thoughts on them.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by DesolationAngel

Wow. I feel like I've researched a hundred different chains in the past few weeks... and NPNG is a whole new one to me! Are you using a stereo pair of the Gefells?

Stereo space pair mic'ing almost always.

BTW, my first choice backup gear include Microtech Gefell M300 mikes and a Great River MP-2H preamp.

Fortunately it has been a few years since I felt the need to spend more money on new gear. Buying stuff can be never ending if you don't watch out.