Upgrade K&K Mini to Trinity?

[Rexfordbridge]

I play: J-45 with a K&K Mini --> Red-Eye Fire Eye Pre Amp ---> Mixer ---> PA Speakers.

I like the K&K Mini, but I find that it sounds very "direct". What I mean by that is I feel like I'm missing some of the shimmer that the guitar has unplugged.

I'm thinking that by adding the K&K Trinity mic to the current mini it would give me that shimmer that I'm looking for. What do you guys think?

I should mention that I play quieter venues in a duo type setting. I mention this because what I'm fearful of is feedback.

[Mobilemike]

Absolutely!

I just did this exact same thing with my 000-18GE and the change is huge.

I usually run the pickup at about 80% volume and the mic at 15-20% but even just that little bit makes an enormous difference. It adds amazing life and sparkle to the sound of the guitar and really makes it sound like a guitar, not just a guitar through a PA. My sound guy at church couldn't stop talking about how great it sounded either.

The trinity upgrade was really easy to do too - I did it myself in about 20 min working carefully.

-Mike

[dwstout]

Most on my guitars have the trinity that I installed myself. I like the control mixing the two sources together gives me. They were originally the Trinity so I've no experience with the technical aspects of the upgrade.

[Steely Glen]

Originally Posted by Mobilemike

Absolutely!

I just did this exact same thing with my 000-18GE and the change is huge.

I usually run the pickup at about 80% volume and the mic at 15-20% but even just that little bit makes an enormous difference. It adds amazing life and sparkle to the sound of the guitar and really makes it sound like a guitar, not just a guitar through a PA. My sound guy at church couldn't stop talking about how great it sounded either.

The trinity upgrade was really easy to do too - I did it myself in about 20 min working carefully.

-Mike

Mike, would you be willing to give us an assessment of how easy this upgrade is? For example, what are the basic steps, etc.? Thanks!

[Mobilemike]

Originally Posted by Steely Glen

Mike, would you be willing to give us an assessment of how easy this upgrade is? For example, what are the basic steps, etc.? Thanks!

For sure!

I found it quite easy.

The Trinity upgrade kit comes with the Trinity mic, which is terminated in two bare wires, the external preamp, and a stereo cable, as well as mounting supplies for the mic.

The first step is to remove the endpin jack from the guitar, as the mic has to be soldered onto this jack. You will see that there are four poles on the inside of the jack - the tip, the ring, and two poles for the ground or sleeve. The Pure mini is attached to the tip and one of the grounds, and the other two should be free. You will need to solder the mic to the ring and the other ground.

It wasn't immediately clear to me which empty pole was the ring and which was the ground (this was the only confusing part of the install) as they both looked similar. So what I did was to plug the included stereo cable into the jack and then used a multimeter to see which pole was which by comparing it with the plug on the other end of the cable.

Once I had that figured out, I covered the guitar with cotton cloths to protect it in case of any solder drippage and soldered the two cables in place. In my guitar there was plenty of cable between the pure mini and the endpin to allow me to get the endpin completely out of the guitar and onto the table, and hopefully yours will be like that too. The soldering itself was really easy - the cables come pre-tinned and everything - and took just a moment. Just be sure to feed the bare cables through the sleeve that screws on the endpin BEFORE you solder them in place, otherwise you won't be able to reattach the endpin (and will have to unsolder and try again).

Once they're soldered in place, simply reassemble the endpin and put it back in the guitar. Then use some of the included velcro to attach the mic inside the guitar as per the instructions that come with the kit. Once that was done I just used the existing clips inside the guitar that were already there to secure the Pure Mini's wires and clipped the mic's wires to them to prevent them from moving around, and thats it!

-Mike

[tochiro]

I used the Trinity for 2 years in an acoustic duet. I found that the mic added higher frequencies ("air" if you want) that were missing with the pickup only but the big problem I faced was feedback. I ended up selling the Trinity system because of that. We did not play very loud though and the mix was 80% pickup and 20% mic.

[nrand]

See related thread: I suggest working a little more with what you already have.
My 12 String has an inbuilt piezo/mic system while my six strings have just the K&K out.
The 12 String with its pickup system is much harder to work with respect to a balanced sound.

Simple and direct is good, add just a little flavour to taste.

[ljguitar]

Hi Rexford...

My entrance into dual-source pickups began with Baggs, then a Taylor with a Fishman dual source in it, and finally to K&K with mini and internal microphones (in all 4 of my current guitars). I don't ever want to go back to single source again.

You'd need to acquire a dual source blender. The best affordable ones out there are DTAR Solstice, K&K Quantum (or their Trinity belt pack), Headway EDB-2.

All these can supply phantom back to the internal mic to power it, and all offer 3-way tone control.

Asides…limitations…
The Trinity belt pack has all it's tone adjustments inside which at times I consider a pain (I have owned one since 2005), and the others are all external.

I just pulled the clip and screws off the case and taped the sides up with blue painter's masking tape so I can get to the battery or tone adjustments on the fly. This is not one you adjust mid-gig.

The Headway EDB-1 & EDB-2 are a wonderful size, with lots of controls, but they only allow tone adjustment to channel 1 OR channel 2 OR both at the same time. That was a deal breaker for me with an EDB-1 I owned for over a year. I had to run blended tone, and didn't want to (I want the tone of my mic to be separate from that of my pickup)

The DTAR Solstice is a full featured preamp/blender with the most capable outputs in a $350-ish package available. Superior in both design, and output (direct box) capability to the Quantum.

It's really a matter of deciding how much control over the signal you want, both in adjustment of tone, volume, effects etc. and then with ground lifting, output to board and amp at the same time, control over effects loops etc.

I used to recommend looking for an older Raven PMB I or II, but they have not been made for over a decade and cost more used than a DTAR does new. The advantage is their ability to operate on battery power. I bought mine for $150 in 2005. One sold on the forum classifieds last year for over $350.

There is the Pendulum SPS-1 which used go for over $1500, so I really didn't toss it into the ring. But if you have the cash, and a rack to carry it in, they are pretty serious gear.

Hope this helps...

[Mobilemike]

Originally Posted by tochiro

I used the Trinity for 2 years in an acoustic duet. I found that the mic added higher frequencies ("air" if you want) that were missing with the pickup only but the big problem I faced was feedback. I ended up selling the Trinity system because of that. We did not play very loud though and the mix was 80% pickup and 20% mic.

The last time I played out with my Trinity it was in a full worship band - acoustic gtr, electric gtr, bass, harmonica, keys, drums, and 3 vocals. We had mains blasting and 4 wedge monitors. Not a hint of feedback any time.

I think this is a situation where it helps to have an experienced sound guy (which we are fortunate to have) - if you are trying to do it all yourself then yeah feedback can be an issue but if you hire a good sound guy he will take care of you.

-Mike

[nrand]

Originally Posted by Mobilemike

.. if you are trying to do it all yourself then yeah feedback can be an issue but if you hire a good sound guy he will take care of you.

-Mike

Here is the reality for a lot of folks: I play solo and most venues around here do not pay enough for me to hire a sound person, so I mix everything myself. This is why I practice at home with my rig - I have a medium/large and acoustically dead space - and try to set as many levels as possible before I go out. This saves me time later. Also regarding feedback, I use an onstage monitor with guitar and vocal in the mix, and usually place it at around 10:00 [to my left front], as I am a right handed guitarist, and this helps me avoid feedback more than anything.
I do not use an acoustic amp.

[ljguitar]

Hi folks...

In over 25 years of running my own sound, I've never been overwhelmed even when we haul the PA into the venue - even when I use the acoustic amp for a stage monitor.

Leave enough time, and you will be good to go no matter how much gear you use.

[GeorgeJR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

K&K with mini and internal microphones (in all 4 of my current guitars).

Are you using the K&K trinity mic or another 3rd party internal mic?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJR

Are you using the K&K trinity mic or another 3rd party internal mic?

Hi George...

K&K microphone in all 4 guitars...