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  #1  
Old 11-20-2016, 07:09 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Default Dovetail vs bolt on

I feel like this may be one of those debated issues that will never be resolved because of personal tastes, but as far as BUILDING goes.... Which do you like to deal with most? Dove tail or bolt on.... And why?
Thank you for any input / experience
B


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  #2  
Old 11-20-2016, 07:11 PM
Halcyon/Tinker Halcyon/Tinker is offline
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And here we go again...

Done em all, have evolved to bolt on butt joints. Simple to make, simple to service.
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:56 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Didn't mean to start a thread that has been beaten to death... I should have searched first , which I've now done. Being a noob I didn't realize it had been sooooo debated consider the thread done IMO. LOTS of info out there.


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  #4  
Old 11-20-2016, 08:16 PM
Quickstep192 Quickstep192 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker View Post
And here we go again...

Done em all, have evolved to bolt on butt joints. Simple to make, simple to service.

When you say bolt on butt joint, do you mean that the bottom of the heel just butts into the top of the body, no tenon?
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Old 11-20-2016, 08:32 PM
Halcyon/Tinker Halcyon/Tinker is offline
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Yup.

........
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2016, 08:31 AM
redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker View Post
And here we go again...

Done em all, have evolved to bolt on butt joints. Simple to make, simple to service.
Me too. I love dovetails and that's how I started off building but the easy and simplicity of a bolt on butt joint and the ease and simplicity of making adjustments to it in the future are just too hard to resist.

The only time I use a bolt on M&T is if the heal has to be a super slim profile as is the case with the Selmers I build.

But in either case I've abandoned the dovetail.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:33 AM
Quickstep192 Quickstep192 is offline
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I would think that method would require quite a bit of accuracy to ensure that the threaded inserts in the heel would line up precisely with the holes in the body. Do you guys mind sharing some info about how you accomplish that?

I'd also love to learn any tips for ensuring that the inserts go in straight an stay in.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:43 AM
redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickstep192 View Post
I would think that method would require quite a bit of accuracy to ensure that the threaded inserts in the heel would line up precisely with the holes in the body. Do you guys mind sharing some info about how you accomplish that?

I'd also love to learn any tips for ensuring that the inserts go in straight an stay in.
I drill the two 1/4in holes in the neck block when building the guitar. Once the box is complete I drill out the holes through the sides then I clamp the neck on the body and reach in through the sound hole with a 1/4in drill bit through the holes and twist it around to make a 'dot' on the neck heal to mark the centers. Then I use a hand drill with a right angle guide to drill out the insert holes. I make the holes a bit bigger then required to screw the inserts in and then just epoxy them in.

After that I widen the neck holes to 5/16th to take up any error which 9 out of 10 times is required.
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Old 11-21-2016, 12:37 PM
Halcyon/Tinker Halcyon/Tinker is offline
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I'll try to remember to take some snaps next time I'm at that step...
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2016, 05:19 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
After that I widen the neck holes to 5/16th to take up any error which 9 out of 10 times is required.
I took a Taylor tour a few years ago and they had bodies on display in the museum/waiting area. For all the precision of the NT neck it appeared each body had some hand work done with a rat tail file to the neck bolt holes presumably for the same reason.
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  #11  
Old 11-22-2016, 08:13 AM
redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
I took a Taylor tour a few years ago and they had bodies on display in the museum/waiting area. For all the precision of the NT neck it appeared each body had some hand work done with a rat tail file to the neck bolt holes presumably for the same reason.
Yeah I've seen stuff like that when doing Taylor neck resets... Makes me feel better about it anyway
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  #12  
Old 11-22-2016, 09:30 AM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default Taylor necks

Seems as if it's easy to vertically align a Taylor NT neck - - - install the bolt beneath the fingerboard first, and the heel bolts align themselves, no? Stabilize the soundboard/fingerboard intersection first. More thought might be needed if the fingerboard is free-floating or glued to the soundboard.
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2016, 04:17 PM
tjp tjp is offline
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Default Butt Joint

I am no expert, having done 8 or 9 butt joints, but the trend is to drill the holes in the neck block, line it up as best you can during construction, then when it comes time to drill holes in the heel and tap the inserts (or use carriage bolts. I want to do this when I run out of inserts), I just measure from the underside of the fingerboard to the center of where the holes should be, drill them, put the inserts in, cross my fingers and modify the holes in the neck block as necessary during final mock up. It is smart to drill the neck block holes 1/16 bigger than your neck bolts to give plenty of wiggle room. Their size doesn't really matter in the end, except to me. The last one had a couple of very ovalized holes by the time I was done. It was a little embarrassing, frankly. Don't tell anyone...

When it's time to permanently attach the neck, I apply a little glue, snug the fingerboard lightly (so it can move a little when I tighten the bolts) up to the body with a cam clamp, snug up the bolts, then clamp the fingerboard solidly in its permanent location.

I spent an afternoon in the Goodall shop a few years ago. Nice guys. They do the butt joint really cleanly, were the inspiration for me to try it...
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2016, 06:23 PM
peter.coombe peter.coombe is offline
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Butt join here too. I drill the holes in the neck block a little bigger to give a bit of wiggle room.
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2016, 08:53 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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i have to be honest,
I wish I had done a little more research in picking out my first kit build. I'm nearing the end I think, and the only place i'm not REALLY satisfied is the neck joint... which... wait for it.. is a dovetail because it was a Martin kit.
I did get a decent joint in there, but I'm not happy with decent;/ that being said everyone with any experience always tells me to simply finish the first build... learn and try again, getting better each time.

The dovetail has been my LEAST favorite part of the endeavor because it was frankly difficult Now, I feel I could get good at it 20 or 25 builds in haha, but I don't want to chase that rabbit if I don't have to, and could grind my wheels elsewhere in a more profitable direction.

The folks Ive talked to about the dovetail, who recommended the build, were in all all honestly Martin superfans I think (AMAZING guys and really good builders). Don't get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with trying to build a martin guitar, but I'm learning that I don't want to build martin guitars. No one will ever build Martin guitars like CF Martin Co. does. I want to build MY guitars that are unique in some way. What does that mean? Thats a good question that I'm sure will eventually flesh out.

All that being said, my next guitar will be a bolt on build. From everything I see online as well as here, there is great tradition in dovetails, but no REAL measurable advantage when compared to bolt on. I just hate that the next build will be the 2nd go at so many of the details that create a guitar, but the 1st go at doing this particular type of neck.

Keep the comments coming.
ED, a few snaps of that process as you say would be awesome !
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